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Old 09-28-2012, 01:32 PM   #721
twobob
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Basically, and I'll have to come back to this because I am on the road. The gentoo flavour of what Niluje is fiddling about with is a RSN project. I have made space. installed the OS even, copied his flags and asked him his gentoo config but can I ACTUALLY tell you how to use that particular flavour correctly? I can not.

But as I say. RSN. stuff set aside.

you are right I have revised the estimate to the 2007q3 throughout now given the
"transitional" nature of 08.x, posts have been updated (I thought)

There is a long windy thread or two that does cover much of what I think you would like to achieve, interspersed with comments by people who really know stuff, mainly filled with stupid questions by me on more or less your subject matter as KNC1 says.

I will write up the bits surrounding the best practices we found an a 3 RSN too but I have a new toy to play with ATM and am loathe to just ditch it to do docs.

well. gotta dash. given some time I'll BBL.

you've probably read em but these aren't terrible guide to getting stuff done on the 3.
(read between the lines on the subject matter, much of the apps are just test stubs)
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=189668
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=188491
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=188031 (all manner of agonies on that)
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=189781

are all filled with bits of info that really need putting somewhere more permanent when the ideas are confirmed as concrete.

Hopefully in that lot there is enough info to get your app x-comiled and running on FAT. I don't see why not.

apologies I couldn't be a bit more comprehensive. Never did have all the answers (often none of them), more like... stumbled over them from the efforts of others.

Still, life seems a lot like that.

^________^
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:33 PM   #722
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@Kai771: eglibc is ABI compatible with glibc. What doesn't work is trying to use stuff from newer glibcs on a system with an older glibc. To help with that, glibc uses symbol versioning, so that when an API change would cause an ABI breakage, the symbol name 'changes' by using a different version suffix. That's what we've been working with/checking when looking at the the readelf output/tweaking the flags: making sure we weren't pulling anything newer than 2.5 by checking the symbol names.

What's probably the issue here is the minimum Kernel ABI it was built to support... I'm guessing something newer than what the Kindle runs, which would explain the horrible breakage on simple syscalls...

Check the output from file/readelf -n

@twobob: Just to add that my TC build itself is not Gentoo specific (Hell, I'm using ct-ng, not gentoo's crossdev ). What I am using some Gentoo ideas/patches for, though, is most of the stuff I actually build with that TC .

Last edited by NiLuJe; 09-28-2012 at 01:37 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:34 PM   #723
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@NiLuJe
Code:
$ file hello-linaro
hello-linaro: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.6.16, BuildID[sha1]=0x6009955cfb47fa74d1c41192b354b4bc4609586d, not stripped
Code:
$ arm-linux-gnueabi-readelf -n hello-linaro

Notes at offset 0x00000148 with length 0x00000020:
  Owner                 Data size	Description
  GNU                  0x00000010	NT_GNU_ABI_TAG (ABI version tag)
    OS: Linux, ABI: 2.6.16

Notes at offset 0x00000168 with length 0x00000024:
  Owner                 Data size	Description
  GNU                  0x00000014	NT_GNU_BUILD_ID (unique build ID bitstring)
    Build ID: 5c95096074fa47fb9211c4d1bcb454b36d580946
I read somewhere that EGLIBC is binary compatible with GLIBC, but I understood it to mean that stuff compiled against GLIBC will work on EGLIBC, not the other way round. Guess that's worng, huh?

Oh, and allow me to try and clarify this again, since I get the feeling that twobob and knc1 don't really understand me:
I'm trying out various pre-built TCs with KindlePDFViewer, trying to see what works in this case alone, and what can be made to work. It's purely for fun. I've built KindlePDFViewer successfully with half a dozen TCs already. The "app" we were talking about - it's the basic Hello World, which is used to show that Linaro compiled stuff (as basic as possible) doesn't work on Kindle 3. There is no "app" that I'm desparate to get running.

Last edited by Kai771; 09-28-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 01:42 PM   #724
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@Kai771: Well, that's not the issue, then... -_-".

My last guess is that it somehow pulls some builtin stuff statically, and since it was built for ARMv7, it's pulling some incompatible stuff, but that's a bit weird for such a simple program, and it should SIGILL, not SIGSEGV... :/.

If you happen to be fluent in ARM assembly, you could disassemble it and check the output for stuff not supported on ARMv6 to test that theory, but, err... .

Or that, yes, you hit a very weird eglibc/glibc ABI mismatch, but that shouldn't happen, AFAIK.

Last edited by NiLuJe; 09-28-2012 at 01:47 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:45 PM   #725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiLuJe View Post
If you happen to be fluent in ARM assembly, you could disassemble it and check the output for stuff not supported on ARMv6 to test that theory, but, err... .
Oooor, I could just stick with "Pre-built Linaro TC is incompatible with Kindle 3". Yep, I think I'm gonna do just that... for now.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:17 PM   #726
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Originally Posted by Kai771 View Post
You obviously don't understand me. I read twobob's work and I do understand what he's talking about. But it's not what I'm trying to do. I don't want to copy new libs on Kindle in /mnt/us/usr/lib. I want my app to use Kindle system lib.
Duh...
Then build your tool-chain against those libraries and that version of the kernel headers.

You surely didn't expect either Ubuntu or Linaro projects to support lab126's build system "out-of-the-box" did you?
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:53 PM   #727
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Why not? I bet it works on K5.

In fact, somebody give it a go.
Attached Files
File Type: zip hello-linaro.zip (2.4 KB, 22 views)
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Old 09-28-2012, 04:27 PM   #728
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Originally Posted by Kai771 View Post
Why not? I bet it works on K5.

In fact, somebody give it a go.
I bet it does not work on the earlier Kindles, and you did post about the K3.

Please give us a heads up when you change the subject being discussed.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:03 PM   #729
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@knc1
I see. So if it works on K5, that's to be expected, and me trying it on K3 is hilarious. Sorry, noob here, didn't realise it.

Btw, you might wanna reconsider that "Holier than thou" attitude of yours. Just saying.
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:24 PM   #730
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Different system libraries.
Not different versions, different libraries (glibc vs. eglibc).
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:30 PM   #731
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Yeah, I realised that here. I didn't know before that. Thus my conclusion - pre-build Linaro not compatible with Kindle 3. NiLuJe built his Linaro against glibc 2.9 (according to his x-compile.sh). That's why it works for him. (Usual disclaimer: Noob opinion, possibly wrong, etc, etc...)
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Old 09-28-2012, 05:40 PM   #732
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Originally Posted by Kai771 View Post
Yeah, I realised that here. I didn't know before that. Thus my conclusion - pre-build Linaro not compatible with Kindle 3. NiLuJe built his Linaro against glibc 2.9 (according to his x-compile.sh). That's why it works for him. (Usual disclaimer: Noob opinion, possibly wrong, etc, etc...)
Also described here:
http://knetconnect.com/KeK/KeK_refer...bsection-B.1.3

Not Holier, just more experienced.
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Old 09-28-2012, 06:38 PM   #733
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Nobody says that you're unexperienced or that you lack knowledge... it's your attitude that sucks.

If you really wanted to be helpful, you could've pointed the mismatch between glibc/eglibc from the beginning. I did read the page. Some time before I tried Linaro. I didn't remember every detail of it. It has more sections missing that it has them written. The section you're refering to does contain the line:
Quote:
gcc-linaro-arm-linux-gnueabihf-2012.05-* gcc-4.7 based tool-chain, default code generation is Cortex-A, Thumb-2, hard float, VFPv3-D16 FPU (neon) built against eglibc. A README file is available.
Note that I used gcc-linaro-arm-linux-gnueabi-2012.04-20120426_linux.tar.bz2. Gnueabi, not Gnueabihf. There's no mention of gnueabi Linaro on that page. So even if I read it closely, I could've easily missed it.

Judging by your posts, it seems that you don't read previous posts of the one you're replying to at all. So your posts, although correct and knowledgeable don't apply to the situation discussed (for example, your suggestion to build a TC, when the point discussed is using readily available, pre-built TCs for building kpdfviewer).

You probably never tried to compile KindlePDFViewer yourself. It's not your regular Linux app. It doesn't use autoconf or automake. It's not portable. It's written specifically for Kindle and uses manually written makefile. It does use some open source projects, but they're also manually compiled, through KindlePDFViewer makefile. Most of your advices had regular Linux app in mind.
(like transfering libs to Kindle. It makes sense when you're trying to make some otherwise unavailable app to work on Kindle. It doesn't make sense when you're testing if the TC will compile the source of readily available and working binary).
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Old 09-28-2012, 07:46 PM   #734
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Personalities aside, "Brevity" is often mistaken.
So, I dragged out my 2007q3 and set about giving this a build for the 3. Then thought about that and tried to actually read back to see exactly what you are trying to do.
In retropsect in fact you are doing exactly, more or less, what I did, get every chain test it, decide what is best.

I see now where you are at perhaps, more adventurous since stuff did actually build for you with the Boggo Standard CS stuff.
So you then thought about throwing a more cocktail TC at it?
What's your current thinking on favourite poisons?

Like you I have all of the CS TC's installed an a few other variants for good measure.
If this is an exercise in "what works?" then perhaps I can see now why you were being directed to the other threads as they are pretty much this actually.

All that said. what you up to now? I was deciding if it was actually worth the effort getting into a build of the thing again (I checked I did fork this a while ago) if you are looking for a "big hammer" for the 3. A few of the devs on here have different opinions about what suits them best, I'm still undecided. Whatever works sounds good to me

What's your opinion so far?
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Old 09-29-2012, 07:59 AM   #735
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@twobob
Quote:
What's your current thinking on favourite poisons?
I don't really know what to say. I only compiled kpdfview (apart from Hello World ). I'd say there's no reason not to go with the latest CS/MG release. You just need to pass it proper switches. Current kpdfview makefile is broken, so just adding switches won't work, but I posted fixed Makefile, so if you use that it'll work. Judging by issue tracking on github, KPDFV developers are busy working on other parts, so they still haven't included the fixes from this thread. I forked it some time ago too, but since I started fiddling with TCs I didn't have time to get sufficiently acquainted with github. I'll probably send pull request in the next few days, if it's not fixed by then. If it gets accepted, it will work out-of-the-box.

Since I never tried compiling anything other than kpdfv, these are just speculations of a noob, but I'd expect most other apps would work with the latest CS/MG, given the same switches used with kpdfv. I think that if you use the latest source of any opensource project you'd like to build, it will require more recent gcc than 4.2, if not now, then soon. So personally, I'd go with the latest, and regress if necessary.

Regarding Linaro, I think that it might be better than CS/MG. It seems Linaro is pretty popular with building android roms, for example. However, it won't work out of the box (on K3. I think it works out of the box on K5). To make it work on K3, you'd have to build it yourself. I'm reluctant to do it, at least for now. It might not be that hard, but... idk, it seems like too much work for me. So I think I'll stick with CS/MG for now.

If I were to build Linaro, however, I'd go for the latest stable release, and build that. Bleeding edge is, well... too bleeding edge for me . In my opinion, bleeding edge is for experts, and since I'm just a noob, it's clearly not for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't apps built for K3 (nano for example) work on K5? If so, I'd use armv6 etc settings for all but performace critical apps (for example, nano doesn't need to be optimized for armv7. Some Video codec, on the other hand...). Some might say it's because I only have K3, but I'm not a fan of optimizations for optimization sake.

So, these are my opinions. I don't know how useful they may be to anyone, but I hope that answers your question .

Last edited by Kai771; 09-29-2012 at 08:23 AM.
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