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Old 09-28-2012, 11:39 AM   #226
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Just plain false, this is precisely what SteveEisenberg said in the last para of post #200.
Nope.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:41 AM   #227
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[QUOTE=Jozawun;2239892][QUOTE=taustin;2239797]
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Originally Posted by Jozawun View Post
First, I've seen this statement before.

In my previous posts I pointed out 2 things:
1. There may have been other reasons for the lack of books published in France in the short period you were talking about (1789-1793).
2. The lack of copyright protection in 19th century USA did not stop English and American writers from continuing to pour out the classics.
I pointed out that we have historical data on what happens when you do away with copyright. You said you were unaware of this event. It's not an especially obscure moment in history. You were ignorant of it. Ergo, you are not well qualified to debate the wisdom of doing away with copyright, and very difficult to take seriously.

You can dance around that all you want, but, like the historical event itself, what happened is what happened.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #228
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I find it amusing (and bemusing) how shrill, abusive and irrelevant the comments always become after a while in Giggleton's threads, especially from copyright apologists and those determined to go down fighting in the doomed Ship DRM.
And now you're reduced to namecalling. While accusing others of being reduced to namecalling.

And that's why nobody takes you seriously.

(Plus, once again, you're simply lying about what I've said.)
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:48 AM   #229
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What do you mean by "copyright apologists"?
Apparently, he means "people who don't agree with my extremist position, that I'm not clever enough to think of a more insulting name to call."

I could be wrong. That may be a more complex sentence that he's capable of.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:51 AM   #230
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I would mean a person that defend any copyright law. A copyright law cannot be wrong so they must find stranger and stranger arguments for it.
So, obviuosly, you won't mind being called a piracy apologist from now on. A person that attacks any copyright law. A copyright cannot be right so you must find stranger and stranger arguments against it. It's good of you to provide this factural description of yourself for us.

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And you are wrong that DRM are necessary. I would say that a lot of other methods would work.
Name one that isn't based on people acting in a way that people do not consistently act. If you can.

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You fallacy is arguing from personal ignorance or whatever it is called.
Says the guy who was ingorant of the historical example of what happens when you do away with coypright.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:53 AM   #231
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It is irrelevant as was pointed out in another thread. It was the printers that stopped prinitng books. It was not the author that stopped writing and distributing books. Now when the author can distribute his own books the situation is totally different.
If by "distribute his own books" you mean "set up his own web site, and hope that somebody will eventually notice it," sure. But nobody has gotten rich (or made a living) distributing their own books that way. The only way to have any reasonable hope of having a significant audience is to distribute through a major portal site, like Amazon. Who will cease to exist if they can't make money from it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:55 AM   #232
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For example what is used now for many textbooks. You need a code to do mandatory exercises so you gave to buy the book to get the code.
How is that in any way relevant to the vast majority of books publishing, which is fiction for recreational reading? Do you propose some system by which you can force someone to do "mandatory excercises" when they buy a trashy romance novel? If not, then maybe you could try to come up with something relevant to the real world.
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Old 09-28-2012, 11:56 AM   #233
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First, Harry, I would never accuse you of becoming shrill in your defence of copyright, or on any other topic.
The term "apologist" was an irritated slap at those defend copyright unthinkingly and irrationally, as if it were a logical given, or divinely ordained.
Which does not describe anyone here, any more than "vile theiving scum who takes whatever they want without paying for it" describes you. It's an insult, pure namecalling, and nothing more. At least be man enough to admit it.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #234
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Yes, publisher's can make money from public domain works. But they don't have to pay the author's estate a cent.
And? It's proof that that universal truth that was claimed was simply untrue.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:01 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by Jozawun View Post
Crikey, Steve!
So we're now saying that copyright results in fewer books. But better books.
Not we. Just me. My opinion here is likely unpopular both among copyright supporters and skeptics. And I didn't say that copyright results in fewer better books in every place and time.

And, of course, I can't prove that copyright collapse would have the opposite effect on volumes today that it did in 1789. But there is evidence, as in one or two threads on this very board, in which it was suggested that authors need to charge low prices and issue several books a year.

Here's the recent trend line for my own country, the US:

Quote:
Bowker is projecting that traditional print book output grew six percent in 2011, from 328,259 titles in 2010 to a projected 347,178 in 2011, driven almost exclusively by a strong self-publishing market. This is the most significant expansion in more than four years for America’s traditional publishing sector, but removing self-publishing from the equation would show that the market is relatively flat from 2010.
Now, I certainly wouldn't claim that the increase -- even more dramatic when you count eBook-only books -- is due to piracy forcing authors to churn out junk. My gut feeling is that US book piracy isn't yet a big enough factor to drive authors. But maybe the great recession is having some similar effect.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 09-28-2012 at 08:56 PM.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:02 PM   #236
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Well, Taustin, old mate, you have finally convinced me, from now on I will drop to my knees twice daily and give thanks to the copyright gods.
And I will do my best on this forum to support your views.
I now regard you as my guru, so like your good self I will restrict myself to calm, polite, well-reasoned, properly substantiated arguments, and I will absolutely abstain from vulgar insults and puerile name-calling.
And I hope you will not take it amiss if, in fighting the good fight, I actually quote some of your own highly convincing recent posts in this and a couple of contemporaneous threads, such as:
You're a funny guy. Really. Hysterical.
a freakish outlier
vile theiving scum who takes whatever they want without paying for it
If you don't keep your promise, people …. might even consider you dishonest. I explained that because you seem a little fuzzy on the concept.
criminal fraud
using words in different ways than most of the english speaking world
excuses to not pay for stuff other people created
a very not safe for work comic
You want stuff you can't afford, so you try to justify taking it without paying for it.
If you actually believe what you're spouting.
people like you are irrelevant to matters of public policy
frankly, a stupid argument
no idea what you're jibbering about
I'd prefer you did it in your closet, rather than here
I will laugh at you
you are a liar and a fraud
Which word do you not understand?
anarchistic nonsense
In all seriousness, dude, how old are you?
You sound like a 14 year old who just discovered Ayn Rand[1] or something.
Have you ever held down a job and supported yourself without help from your parents?
a hypocrite of the vilest sort, expecting from society what you refuse to give it in return.
sovergisn citizen loons
the only thing he has ever managed to shoot is his own foot
Not …. got the skill or the balls to try what he's talking about
Hyporcisy, or psychosis
the dark, dusty, cobweb covered recesses of what passes for his mind
What kind of drugs are you on? Seriously, man, you smoke too much of it.
no clue what he's talking about
It's inconceivable to me that he's ever made more than minimum wage, if he's ever held down a job at all
just clueless, as usual,
a hazard to the internet at large.


Keep the faith, brother.
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Old 09-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #237
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How is that in any way relevant to the vast majority of books publishing, which is fiction for recreational reading?
Vast majority? On MobileRead I think, but not generally.

I'm having a hard time finding good statistics on this, but the following gives some idea:

[Bestselling books of 2011: the top 100 listed

Certainly fiction for recreational reading is the biggest single category, but when you add up all the small categories, they come to more. Here is a link on that, found in my last link:

http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data...s/type-of-book
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:04 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
Vast majority? On MobileRead I think, but not generally.

I'm having a hard time finding good statistics on this, but the following gives some idea:

[Bestselling books of 2011: the top 100 listed

Certainly fiction for recreational reading is the biggest single category, but when you add up all the small categories, they come to more. Here is a link on that, found in my last link:

http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data...s/type-of-book
Everybody needs to pay for what they get.. no Free Lunch.. unless you want go on Welfare..
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Old 09-28-2012, 09:29 PM   #239
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Now I'm shaking in my boots at your overwhelming declamation of absolute fact...
Good.
But I warn you, you better not be coming the raw prawn, or else I'll get my new guru taustin on to you, and he'll give you what for!

Taustin, just keep an eye on this bloke for us, will you?
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Old 09-29-2012, 05:37 AM   #240
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There are many free e-books to get, I got this list: http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Free_eBooks
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