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Old 09-25-2012, 09:32 AM   #1
Gagarin Gambit
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Reading academic pdfs - Onyx Boox i62HD or a 9 inch reader?

I intend to buy an e-book reader which will be mostly for the purpose of reading academic articles and books, which usually come in pdf format, with all sorts of text formatting and, occasionally, with tables and figures. Moreover, my budget is rather limited so 9 inch readers tend to be expensive for me. After looking into 6 inch options, I decided on the Onyx i62HD... however I am cautious, especially since I can't find a video review in English. Will I be able to use this ebook reader for this purpose, or would it be problematic, and I should decide that I need to throw in an extra 100-150 euros and get a reader such as Onyx M92 or Pocketbook 912?

Any input from users familiar with this particular ebook reader and/or with academic pdfs would be welcome.

A few details.
  • I also intend to read literature, and the browser and the occasional application are good bonuses. However, without good support for academic texts, an ebook reader would only be a nice gadget for me. Therefore, the following features are a must:
    a. Easy pdf reading, regardless of formatting.
    b. Adding annotations and highlights in any document and pdf formats. Ideally, browsing your highlights/notes should be at least as fast as in a paper (as you constantly need to look into your bibliography and notes when you're writing a work of your own).
  • Unless someone has a very pleasant experience from another 6 inch reader, I'm rather firm in my decision on the Onyx i62HD. Firstly, because I hope that the 1024x800 definition will make smaller fonts (and pdfs) more readable. Secondly, because when you're located in Europe, shipping and tax becomes an issue since most readers are shipped from the US. Thus, for instance, the Kindle touch would cost me roughly the same, even though its base price is much lower. Therefore, with Onyx I get more features at the same cost. Also, I'm looking only into e-ink displays, I spend too much time looking at the LCD computer screen as it is.
  • I'm familiar with pdf converting via Calibre or tools such as k2pdfopt. However, they are not always successful. I experimented with pdfs and various conversions using an ancient, pretty basic 6 inch reader borrowed from a friend, and the results were mixed. I even had trouble getting a decent result when trying to convert my own PhD thesis...
  • Portability is a considerable advantage of 6 inch readers. A 9 inch reader has the cost and size of a notebook or a tablet... the only significant advantage it has over them is the e-ink display and the battery life.

Thanks for any replies, I hope they will be useful for anyone else facing a similar dilemma. BTW, you have a very good forum on ebooks
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:13 AM   #2
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[*]Portability is a considerable advantage of 6 inch readers. A 9 inch reader has the cost and size of a notebook or a tablet... the only significant advantage it has over them is the e-ink display and the battery life.[/LIST]
Hi there, I was in exactly your position about a year ago, and I would STRONGLY (and I mean, STRONGLY!) encourage you to go for a tablet. I am sure you can find something second hand that isn't that badly priced relative to the price of a 9" e-reader. In my experience, e-ink is a total drag for the kind of reading you do when you are conducting research. I'm sure there are others out here who disagree with me, but that is my personal opinion.

I use an iPad, annotating research literature with iAnnotate and Sente. The advantages of that in terms of functionality, quick browsing back and forth in a document, multiplicity and speed of annotation tools, and so on, greatly offset the advantages of e-ink display and battery life (I just charge my iPad overnight, sometimes every other night - as long as the battery can last you a full day, you're fine, you don't really need battery life for a whole month).

Last edited by jojoba; 09-25-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #3
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i'm in for exactly that topic to - new job - about 2 hours to work and from work which i want to spend reading. Scientific papers and literature - biological/pharmaceuticla/chemical.
Using calibre for managment.

I'm also struggling - as i use the pc at work a lot - so i'll try to get something with a display that is not to much exhausting the eyes.

I also want to use it mainly for reading only - so notes etc. are just nice features.

Any help is welcome (by both - me and Gagarin)
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:34 PM   #4
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This thread might be useful for both of you:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=191370
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:12 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by jojoba View Post
Hi there, I was in exactly your position about a year ago, and I would STRONGLY (and I mean, STRONGLY!) encourage you to go for a tablet. I am sure you can find something second hand that isn't that badly priced relative to the price of a 9" e-reader. In my experience, e-ink is a total drag for the kind of reading you do when you are conducting research. I'm sure there are others out here who disagree with me, but that is my personal opinion.

I use an iPad, annotating research literature with iAnnotate and Sente. The advantages of that in terms of functionality, quick browsing back and forth in a document, multiplicity and speed of annotation tools, and so on, greatly offset the advantages of e-ink display and battery life (I just charge my iPad overnight, sometimes every other night - as long as the battery can last you a full day, you're fine, you don't really need battery life for a whole month).
While I agree with your reasoning, a tablet is a no-go for me. I find LCD extremely tiresome and I already spend several hours in front of one, so I need to get an e-ink device.

The thread you linked to has some very useful information, especially if it comes to choosing between Onyx M92 and Pocketbook 912, but it doesn't answer my main question: Is it possible to do this kind of reading/work using a 6 inch reader?
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Old 09-25-2012, 05:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Gagarin Gambit View Post
While I agree with your reasoning, a tablet is a no-go for me. I find LCD extremely tiresome and I already spend several hours in front of one, so I need to get an e-ink device.

The thread you linked to has some very useful information, especially if it comes to choosing between Onyx M92 and Pocketbook 912, but it doesn't answer my main question: Is it possible to do this kind of reading/work using a 6 inch reader?
In my experience, no. I tried with a Sony and a Kindle.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:16 PM   #7
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greetings

as bob dole suggested .. depends ...

back in the bad old days, with a prs-505, I used pdflrf / paper-crop / briss etc to attempt getting useful copy ... It (they, in various combinations) worked ... maybe 70 percent of the time ... text only .. no problem .. boxes, boundaries, tables mostly not

so now I use mostly k2pdfopt to reformat books on a lowly pandigital 6" thingy ... works ok for my use ... Thing is, you've got to experiment ... Set a "Standard" and try various options/programs/formats and see what works for you .. IMHO stock answers like "ipad" "tablet" are less than useless ... in particular since you specified (I thought) e-ink, not lcd ... are there any "ipods .. tablets" that do e-ink?

End of rant ... mostly
Jim

Last edited by ab7vf; 09-25-2012 at 10:18 PM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:37 AM   #8
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IMHO stock answers like "ipad" "tablet" are less than useless ... in particular since you specified (I thought) e-ink, not lcd ... are there any "ipods .. tablets" that do e-ink?

End of rant ... mostly
Jim
Why exactly do you believe it is a 'stock' answer? Do you think I am just repeating something for the fun of it?

Many of those who recommend tablets do so because we have been there done that with e-ink, and have concluded that e-ink doesn't do the job. As a researcher, I might plough through fifty PDFs per day. Some of them, I will be reading and annotating in detail, some I will be flicking through to find particular quotes or pieces of information, some of them I will be skimming as part of an initial literature review. If I had to chose between doing that on e-ink or on paper, quite frankly I would use paper, because in comparison e-ink would slow me down, and I really don't have time for that. Given the amount of PDFs I go though, I also have no time to 'experiment' with cropping pages or zooming or other things to try to get a useful copy. My requirements are pretty simply: I want to open the PDF and have it ready to read. That definitely didn't happen to me with a 6" e-ink reader. While a 9" reader would definitely have helped (and I did consider one), everyone I spoke to who is doing similar work and who had experience with this said that a tablet would be superior. I now agree with them. Why? Because

- scrolling and page rendering is super fast (this is extremely important to me as outlined above - I really can't have this way of working slowing me down compared to paper)
- the annotation capacities on tablets are far superior - for example, it is easy to distinguish by colour how some text relates to method, some to theory, and some to review findings, hand writing is much more accurate, there are a lot of advanced options for navigating and jumping back and forth within a document)
- I can easily import PDFs to the note taking apps that serve as my digital notebook for my research, and its great to have this in the same place as all my research literature
- tablets come with proper solutions for PDF management for research, such as Sente, Papers, Mendeley, or whatever your app of choice may be. IMO, having a strong workflow for managing literature is key when you do research, especially when you are talking a few thousand PDFs.

I could go on, but the point is that my so called 'stock' answer is actually based on a lot of considerations that are pretty important when you are doing research, as the OP is about to start doing. I, too, would LOVE to be able to do all of this on e-ink. I have a Kindle and a T1 and I think they are brilliant for recreational reading. I also spend on average ten hours a day in front of a computer. So, yes, e-ink would be great. But IME, it simply doesn't do the job as well, and the difference in performance for the kind of work I do is beyond significant. I simply don't think e-ink readers were designed to support serious research work.

As to reading on LCD, while I was initially very sceptical about that, I then found that I wasn't bothered by it. I do think it is much more comfortable reading on an iPad than my mac. In any case, it is a tiny compromise compared to the increase in performance.

Of course, your mileage may vary on all this - but please realise that the so called stock answers about tablets often originate from the fact that we have been there, done that, and weren't impressed. I, too, went on about not wanting a tablet and insisting on e-ink in the beginning. My mind was changed the hard way.

Last edited by jojoba; 09-26-2012 at 02:50 AM.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:36 PM   #9
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My comments:

- none of the eInk readers have enough resolution and PDF annotation support to really work properly for academic paper reading, annotations
- none of them have reference management

Now the tablets:

- ipad : iAnnotate is very good for PDF annotation. iPad walled garden anad management through it's own forced systems is very cumbersome (imho). It dictates your workflow, not the other way around. For ref management, Zotero and Mendeley are available. The screen is horrible for long term reading (imho, ymmv). Must use an anti-reflective screen protector

- Android tablets: same problems with screens. No reference management. Workflow is *MUCH* more flexible. Double the storage space (64GB internal + 64GB SDXC card).

- Amazon Fire HD+ / Nook HD +. Forked Android. You really have to hack these to make them work in any useful way. Other android limitations apply.

To me, there really aren't good enough reference management capable, academic paper reading (yes reading for hours, not just browsing for 20 minutes) and annotation tablets. iPad gets the closest, but it is horribly limited due to Apple and the screen really isn't very good for long-term reading, the reflections are just intolerable for me. Some are willing to live with this or get a semi-matte screen protectore.
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Old 09-26-2012, 04:56 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by paaThaka View Post
My comments:

- none of the eInk readers have enough resolution and PDF annotation support to really work properly for academic paper reading, annotations
- none of them have reference management

Now the tablets:

- ipad : iAnnotate is very good for PDF annotation. iPad walled garden anad management through it's own forced systems is very cumbersome (imho). It dictates your workflow, not the other way around. For ref management, Zotero and Mendeley are available. The screen is horrible for long term reading (imho, ymmv). Must use an anti-reflective screen protector

- Android tablets: same problems with screens. No reference management. Workflow is *MUCH* more flexible. Double the storage space (64GB internal + 64GB SDXC card).

- Amazon Fire HD+ / Nook HD +. Forked Android. You really have to hack these to make them work in any useful way. Other android limitations apply.

To me, there really aren't good enough reference management capable, academic paper reading (yes reading for hours, not just browsing for 20 minutes) and annotation tablets. iPad gets the closest, but it is horribly limited due to Apple and the screen really isn't very good for long-term reading, the reflections are just intolerable for me. Some are willing to live with this or get a semi-matte screen protectore.
Just to add that for reference management on the iPad, you can also use Sente, Bookends and Papers. I'm not sure about Bookends, but Papers and Sente have annotation features, although they are nowhere near as advanced as iAnnotate.
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Old 09-26-2012, 07:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Gagarin Gambit View Post
While I agree with your reasoning, a tablet is a no-go for me. I find LCD extremely tiresome and I already spend several hours in front of one, so I need to get an e-ink device.

The thread you linked to has some very useful information, especially if it comes to choosing between Onyx M92 and Pocketbook 912, but it doesn't answer my main question: Is it possible to do this kind of reading/work using a 6 inch reader?
Simple answer, no!

While technically speaking you could use a 6 inch eink reader for PDFs, it is too small and slow for most documents. If you browse this forum or wait for more replies, you will see that what I am saying is the common case and answer for most Mobile read users that faced same dilemma before, including me.

I do understand your concern about tablets, but the true is that for PDFs, which is not an ebook format, 10 inches tablets is the best option. Not only because its size, but because the LCD technology is way more faster than regular eink devices., plus gives you color too.

I used to have a Kindle DXG, now forgotten by Amazon (no updates in more than a year) and jumping between chapters or going back and forth was painfully slow. I liked the size and weight a lot, but it was too slow. It also lacks of annotation features. iPad with GoodReader app, gives you all that and more.

Now, reading PDF o eink is doable, even on 6 inches, but unless the reader does landscape, it will be too small or you will find yourself zooming in and out a lot.
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Old 09-27-2012, 04:20 PM   #12
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm still undecided, but I'll post back my experience after I get whatever I choose.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:25 PM   #13
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Thank you everyone for your replies. I'm still undecided, but I'll post back my experience after I get whatever I choose.
Please, let us know, and good luck ...
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Old 10-06-2012, 06:43 AM   #14
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It's time to report back.

Based on your replies and a little online research, I decided to buy the Onyx Boox i62HD. The reasoning is that the majority of people into academics suggest using a tablet and, since it was likely that even a 9 inch reader might not be up to the task, there was no point in paying double price. Thus I settled for a good 6 inch reader which, at worst case scenario, would be a quality general purpose reader and would allow me at least to do some of my research reading.

From what I see so far, it seems I made the right choice. On the positive side:
- The 1024x765 screen is really outstanding and allows easy reading of small fonts. I compared it to a regular 800x600 screen, and the difference is huge. If the font of a pdf is relatively large, just cutting the margins is enough to read it - it looks just like the same pdf if you print 2 pages in one A4 page, but with a greyish background.
- The firmware includes some extremely useful tools for annotations and highlights, as well as browsing and exporting them.
On the negative side:
- While you can scribble notes, it's not practical because of the screen size and touch recognition technology. It seems that this feature is actually useful only for the M92.
- As you all warned me, e-ink is slow. Not terribly slow, it's quite good for reading and low pace studying, but I don't think it's up to the task of working with dozens of articles at the same time, when you're preparing a work of your own.

All in all, I believe that the Onyx i62HD was a good compromise, considering that actually there's no perfect technology for what I need. The Onyx M92 would be somewhat better, but not good enough to justify the cost, while I'm avoiding the tablets because of the LCD screens. For the time being I'll be using the i62 for some of my research, and I'll be patient until the technology is good enough to completely replace paper for people into research.

If I get some time, I may write a proper review of this reader (since Onyx i62 reviews in English are rare).
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:18 AM   #15
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Onyx i62HD

Hi Gagarin,

Would you say that the screen of the Onyx is much better than the Kindle Touch?

I am in your situation. I read a lot of pdfs for hours at a time, but I don't work on them like you do.

I just need a good reader, but I am loathe to invest 350€ on an M92, inasmuch as I don't know who they are and it seems that the quality of the stuff depends on the goodwill of the vendor and I don't really understand who does what. There are so many vendors each with its own branding, firmware and support. And pricing.

I could possibly invest 250€ in an Amazon product (a new DX for instance, but I doubt that Amazon will come up with this type of product any more), but being a conservative type I just need belt and braces before spending the price of a week in a 4 stars hotel in Thailand on unknown quantities.

Thanks for your time.
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