Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-20-2012, 02:45 PM   #16
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,140
Karma: 5245236
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by carpetmojo View Post
I'd love to know how they could prove the difference between an (allegedly) "designed" 4-stroke engine sound and one that sounds similar purely because it has a particular cylinder layout, uses no supposedly sound-altering devices, and, say, straight pipes.
Rather strange how some other motors have a distinctive engine sound without any extra effort being made to enter a "sound boutique" competition.
Still, I suppose Harley had to find something radical and important to develop on their power plants .......
It's one of the most distinctive features of their early models, and no four stroke gasoline engine makes that sound except on purpose. It's a legitimate trademark. Nobody else's motorcycle will sound like a Harley unless they make it do so on purpose, and the only reason to make it do so on purpose it to profit from Harley's reputation. That's what trademarks are all about stopping.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 02:47 PM   #17
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,140
Karma: 5245236
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave_S View Post
But, the sound that a particular configuration of engine components and sizes makes is natural for that particular configuration. Does that pick your nit any better?
Because the origin of the unique rumble of a Harley is from a motor that isn't at all like a modern 4 stroke engine, no other motorcycle engine will sound like that naturally. It really is a legitimate trademark. Otherwise, there'd have been a successful challenge to it decades ago.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 02:48 PM   #18
taustin
Wizard
taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.taustin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,140
Karma: 5245236
Join Date: Aug 2010
Device: Nook
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuantumIguana View Post
Trademarking the sound of an engine is ridiculous. I can make a knock-off soda that tastes the same, I can make a knock-off perfume that smells the same, but I can't make an engine that happens to sound like a Harley-Davidson? Engine noise is a side effect, it's like trademarking exhaust fumes.
In the case of a Harley, it's not a side effect. It's a deliberate design choice, and the result of a considerable amount of effort. But thanks for trying.
taustin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 04:02 PM   #19
ScotiaBurrell
Banned
ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.ScotiaBurrell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,118
Karma: 3111746
Join Date: Oct 2011
Device: Kindle & little green monster
Looks like one of Apples designers was a bit too inspired by someone elses design:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/...railway-clock/
ScotiaBurrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 05:01 PM   #20
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,842
Karma: 85467920
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell View Post
Looks like one of Apples designers was a bit too inspired by someone elses design:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/...railway-clock/
Yes, they've definitely been caught ripping off a clock design. They should have licences it or used a different design. Someone was lazy in checking out whether the design was public domain or not..
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2012, 11:51 PM   #21
Cyberman tM
Addict
Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Cyberman tM's Avatar
 
Posts: 360
Karma: 2008654
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Austria
Device: ImcoV6l; Elonex EB600 Cool-Er; Kobo Wifi
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScotiaBurrell View Post
Looks like one of Apples designers was a bit too inspired by someone elses design:

http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/20/...railway-clock/
Is this for real?
What exactly is worth protecting about that design?

I'm sure I've seen countless variations of that "design" - hard to believe they're all licensed (or even inspired by that clock).

Unless I'm missing something important, all I see is a basic 12 hour clock reduced to the essential minimum, removing numbers.
The seconds hand has a circle at the end. Yay?
Cyberman tM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 04:52 AM   #22
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,842
Karma: 85467920
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberman tM View Post
Is this for real?
What exactly is worth protecting about that design?

I'm sure I've seen countless variations of that "design" - hard to believe they're all licensed (or even inspired by that clock).

Unless I'm missing something important, all I see is a basic 12 hour clock reduced to the essential minimum, removing numbers.
The seconds hand has a circle at the end. Yay?
There are many ways to reduce a clock face to a minimum without numbers.
This is clearly a copy of someone else's intellectual property.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:04 AM   #23
Cyberman tM
Addict
Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Cyberman tM ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Cyberman tM's Avatar
 
Posts: 360
Karma: 2008654
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Austria
Device: ImcoV6l; Elonex EB600 Cool-Er; Kobo Wifi
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
There are many ways to reduce a clock face to a minimum without numbers.
This is clearly a copy of someone else's intellectual property.
The google link doesn't really show that many clocks without numbers - I think google links aren't absolute.

Even so, those I saw mostly worked along the same principle - remove the number, enlarge the "five minute" marks, perhaps leave the minutes.
Not all use a seconds hand, and certainly not shaped like the SBB one, though.

BTW, would you say that MS also copied the design? (See attachment)

I'm not saying they're identical, just that it's the same general principle again.
Perhaps apple copied the design, might just be - but I think it's not really worth protection in the first place. It can easily be coincidence.
(Nor are rounded corners and such.)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	ms_clock.png
Views:	56
Size:	32.4 KB
ID:	92718  
Cyberman tM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:50 AM   #24
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 7,354
Karma: 57839039
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: PRS-T1, KT, PB701/IQ, K2, PB360, BeBook One, Axim51v, TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberman tM View Post
BTW, would you say that MS also copied the design? (See attachment)

I'm not saying they're identical, just that it's the same general principle again.
Perhaps apple copied the design, might just be - but I think it's not really worth protection in the first place. It can easily be coincidence.
(Nor are rounded corners and such.)
Not even close.
Apple copied the open circle on the second hand, they copied the thickness of the hour marks, they copied the *entire* design. MS just coughed up a generic numberless clock face.

It is that very distinction that a lot of people can't seem to grasp about design patents; it's not about curved glass--it is about one very specfic curved shape--and it's not about just rounded corners but rather the combination of design elements that as a whole identify the product.

Curved glass?
How about this one:


The classic Pepsi swirl bottle.
It's all about the tactile impression of the ice-cold bottle.

Or, check here for a look at how soda bottle shapes *defined* the different products for consumers.
http://imprint.printmag.com/branding...ing-evolution/

Product design is as much a serious discipline as any architectural or engineering branch and, commercially speaking, just as important.
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 06:53 AM   #25
Graham
Wizard
Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Graham ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,560
Karma: 30624239
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Yorkshire, UK
Device: Sony PRS-650, Nexus 4, HP Touchpad, Nexus 7.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberman tM View Post
Perhaps apple copied the design, might just be - but I think it's not really worth protection in the first place. It can easily be coincidence.
The red dot on the end of the second hand of the iconic Swiss design would be an unlikely coincidence.

This one seems to be a pretty clear gaffe. A trademarked design has been used without licence. The reparations will be made (and someone's desk is likely to be empty at Cupertino this evening).

Interestingly, a clock app has been available in the App Store since 2009 which also uses the design, but with permission:

Quote:
SBB owns the copyright to the clock. Originally it was designed by Hans Hilfiker in 1944. Today, the clock is among the most famous Swiss design icons.

Back in 2009, developer Thomas Feger launched a clock App with Hilfiker’s design. He had SBB’s permission. Feger calls Apple’s move «brass.» He believes that company was inspired by his App.
Graham
Graham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 07:08 AM   #26
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,842
Karma: 85467920
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Google search links certainly aren't absolute. But if you scroll through a few pages, you'll see lots of numberless clock faces.

The Microsoft one clearly isn't a copy. The minute marks are dots, not lines, the marks and hands are thinner, and the second hand isn't red and doesn't have the distinctive shape.

For those who haven't looked at the article, here are the Apple and the Swiss Railway clocks.

Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	clock faces.png
Views:	473
Size:	50.4 KB
ID:	92720  
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 07:09 AM   #27
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,745
Karma: 40390405
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by taustin View Post
Trademarks have to be actively defended. If you find out someone is infringing, and you don't do anything about it, you can easily lose the trademark. This is the reason for so many stupid and offensive cease & desist letters from lawyers.
As happened with trademarks like "Aspirin". It wasn't defended in the US, and lost its trademark status as a result. (It is still a trademark in Europe)
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 07:14 AM   #28
pdurrant
The Grand Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 30,842
Karma: 85467920
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
I think the most surprising thing, apart from someone at Apple making the mistake of thinking the design was public domain, is that it's been copied badly. The minute marks are a bit thin, the five minute marks are a bit thick, the hands are all a bit short, and the minute and hour hands are the same thickness as each other, and don't taper at all.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 09:39 AM   #29
QuantumIguana
Philosopher
QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.QuantumIguana ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
QuantumIguana's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,844
Karma: 17022226
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2 gen, Kindle Fire 1st Gen, Kindle Touch
It had thought that Harley Davidson was successful in trademarking their engine noise. It turns out they dropped their trademark claim in 2000.

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/jun...iness/fi-43145

Last edited by QuantumIguana; 09-21-2012 at 12:02 PM.
QuantumIguana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2012, 09:44 AM   #30
andyh2000
Fanatic
andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.andyh2000 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
andyh2000's Avatar
 
Posts: 561
Karma: 1568694
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Device: Samsung Galaxy S4 Mini phone / Kindle 4 Black / Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
I think the most surprising thing, apart from someone at Apple making the mistake of thinking the design was public domain, is that it's been copied badly. The minute marks are a bit thin, the five minute marks are a bit thick, the hands are all a bit short, and the minute and hour hands are the same thickness as each other, and don't taper at all.
I prefer Apple's...

Andrew
andyh2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
iPad iPad 1 Glass vs. iPad 2 Glass kjk Apple Devices 2 03-27-2011 11:17 AM
B&N Settles With Spring Design- Aquires license for patent & patent apps Dulin's Books News 2 03-02-2011 06:29 PM
Gorilla Glass SameOldStory News 29 10-15-2010 02:06 AM
Request Gorilla glass guyjack enTourage Archive 9 08-29-2010 10:45 PM
half a glass SUSGOD Bookeen 25 03-08-2008 05:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.