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Old 09-10-2012, 03:19 AM   #121
HansTWN
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Old 09-10-2012, 03:28 AM   #122
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:22 AM   #123
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Reading isn't fine wine, expensive sports cars or exotic vacations. Reading is available to anyone, at little or no cost, thus, I don't see my position as elitist.
I'm not sure if this really is true.
I do think reading is an acquired taste, like fine wine or good beer (if there is such a thing, I wouldn't know - tastes all the same to me).

To us reading is instinctive - glance at a block of text, know the meaning.
But others need to work through it, line by line. It takes lots of time and work, thus it isn't enjoyable.

(Of course, in the case of the OP, he was also ignorant. That's a different matter. I would think that nowadays everyone at least heard of eBooks.)

--

Out of curiosity - what if the first sign of printed words on paper would have been comics?
I do own books, but they're in a separate room not likely to be encountered unintentionally. A few of my comics are stored in the anteroom, though. (There were shelves available and the comics fit nicely. Why waste good space?)
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Old 09-10-2012, 10:29 AM   #124
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I'm not sure if this really is true.
I do think reading is an acquired taste, like fine wine or good beer (if there is such a thing, I wouldn't know - tastes all the same to me).

To us reading is instinctive - glance at a block of text, know the meaning.
But others need to work through it, line by line. It takes lots of time and work, thus it isn't enjoyable.

(Of course, in the case of the OP, he was also ignorant. That's a different matter. I would think that nowadays everyone at least heard of eBooks.)
In order to acquire a taste for fine wine, I must first drink fine wine. Two Buck Chuck won't impress anyone. If I buy a bottle of $20 wine, someone else can produce a bottle of $50 wine. If I spring for the $50 wine, someone else can produce a bottle of $100 wine. If I drive an expensive sports car, someone else can buy a more expensive sports car. If I take an exotic vacation, someone else can trump that with an even more expensive vacation. Sooner or later, the price for wines, cars and vacations rises to the point where it is impossible to keep up.

Books are cheap - by weight, a used book might be cheaper than potting soil, and thus literally be dirt cheap. We teach reading in school. Most people have the ability to read. People can choose to read or not to read. And if reading is truly difficult for some, well some people are taller, some people are faster, some people are stronger than others, yet we don't expect them to apologize for it. Yet readers are often portrayed rather negatively.

I'm not going to pick on non-readers, I'll leave them alone. My wife and I are readers, we discuss books quite often. It's like our own private science fiction panel. I don't consider reading to just be a hobby, it's an important part of my life. I don't think I would be happy in a relationship with a non-reader. Others are free to do what will make them happy.
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Old 09-11-2012, 12:15 AM   #125
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I detest flowery words like in the title of this thread.
What about flowery words like Petunia or Chrysanthemum? How do you feel about them?
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:14 AM   #126
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What about flowery words like Petunia or Chrysanthemum? How do you feel about them?
I'm partial to Gladiola.
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Old 09-11-2012, 05:34 AM   #127
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I'm partial to Gladiola.
I'm partial to Pillsbury
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Old 09-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #128
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I'm partial to Pillsbury
Oh oh, the Sock Simian is going nutty again....
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:15 AM   #129
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Oh oh, the Sock Simian is going nutty again....
...yummmmmmmmmm
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:49 AM   #130
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What about flowery words like Petunia or Chrysanthemum? How do you feel about them?
I'm good with them as long as they don't creep into the books I read.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:46 PM   #131
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I know that in a politically correct society we are supposed to accept everybody as they are, but last Friday I was at a bar when a man in his 50's began chatting me up. He seemed smart and funny so when the inevitable question came about following him home, I thought "an older man might be more intellectually interesting fare than the normal run of 30's something". Hence, I went with him. When we got to his place I immediately noticed that he didn't have any bookshelves, so I asked him if he read on a Kindle or Sony (the latter being the dominant choice in Sweden). He looked at me dazed: "What is that?", he asked.

I just said: "Never mind, and can I use the bathroom". Once there the phone came out and a text to a friend about saving me within the next 15 minutes was sent. She called and we pretended that my parents had been in a car accident, as expected he didn't offer to drive me to the hospital (I think he smelled a ruse) and I left in a hurry.

On my way home I realized that the lack of reading, no books and no clue as to an eReader, had been a total turn-off. There was never going to be any interesting conversation, no witty repertoire, no allusions to literary characters and no reading recommendations. I felt like I would only be wasting my time, I also admit that I began to think of him as an incompetent lover (obviously the diametrically opposite might be true). I am willing to withstand scorn and condemnation for my callousness, but I am actually more curious about how the rest of you think about non-readers. Had it been a woman I'm sure I wouldn't have cared as much.
It would not necessarily be a turnoff. It would depend on other things. I would rather spend time with a non-reader than someone who read a lot, but was an unpleasent person.

Did you see his entire house/apartment? Perhaps he had an entire room just for hard-copy books. I know, rather doubtful.

But I do wonder why he had never heard of a Kindle. Perhaps he wasn't into electronic "gadgets" and didn't shop on Amazon. Even non-readers can't miss all the information about Kindles on the various home pages. Although emphasis does vary (for example, look at Amazon Japan).

And even if you find someone who reads, it doesn't mean they read the same amount and/or the same things. My SO of 12+ years does not read nearly as much as I do (but then I think I read too much) and his reading interests are usually much different from mine. Very little overlap.

What I find interesting is why you think it would not have bothered you as much if it had been a woman.

Edit: typo.

Last edited by Indio777; 09-11-2012 at 10:49 PM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:33 AM   #132
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I try not to judge.

Many people i have met read and continue reading truckloads of books but read always the same variation of a single book, or only read a certain genre or are strangely fearful of books with flowery words of strange plots, structures, characters or ideas. I always have this idea of books serving as an enlightenment as well as a pleasure function that sometimes i feel completely absent in an avid book reader.

It is the curiosity, the questioning and the search that attracts me on someone else's intellect, and unfortunately that does not come automatically by reading a "book". Sad as it is, some people read the same way as they eat or buy groceries, in a purely functional way. Anything new or unknown in a book is something to be disliked, feared even. Reading is way less worthy if it is not challenging, makes you question something, presents something new to you. Or inspires you.

Having said this, i found not at all uncommon to find a non reader (or a non-big reader) more interesting and witty than, say, a person who only reads sci-fi, or romance, or the same contemporary fiction, or easy books, etc, etc.

I also think there are books and books. Some books are terrible, while others sublime. And i think that although some variability in taste is normal i think there is a canon that defines the landscape where good literature might be or might obey and definitely a place where nothing but garbage is likely to grow. Subjectivism has its limits... so between someone who reads only garbage and someone who does not, i think actually the non reader might win!

Fortunately, there are many ways to learn and be open to the world, though i think books are the best.
So having books is a good start, but not a absolute sign. Absence of books is a thing to notice but not a deal breaker. It is the inside that matters.

Last edited by Salgueiros; 09-12-2012 at 12:45 AM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:49 AM   #133
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Almost everyone seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room: you followed a guy home within, presumably, a few hours of meeting him. I'm pretty sure any sort of long-term relationship was the last thing on his mind.

I would have enjoyed the night for what it could have been.

But, as we know, each to their own.

Edit: I am seriously curious: if lack of a 'bookshelf' is such a concern to you that you have to so dramatically lie in order to get out of what was surely shaping up to be a one night type of thing (after finding him interesting enough to follow home in the first place), why are reading habits not one of the first topics broached when you meet a potential suitor?

Last edited by foghat; 09-12-2012 at 11:29 AM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 11:16 AM   #134
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I just said: "Never mind, and can I use the bathroom". Once there the phone came on
How in the heck can you be subtle with that phone you carry! I'm sure he'd see the glowing light under the bathroom door.

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I felt like I would only be wasting my time, I also admit that I began to think of him as an incompetent lover (obviously the diametrically opposite might be true).
That is an important value that should not be taken lightly. I myself am GREAT in bed, once my head hits the pillow I'm asleep in seconds


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Had it been a woman I'm sure I wouldn't have cared as much.
So as a bisexual you have less standards for women? C'mon it's not fair for us guys throw us a bone!

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I am willing to withstand scorn and condemnation for my callousness, but I am actually more curious about how the rest of you think about non-readers.
I feel people here in MR obsess about reading and fail to see the real value of reading. It's just a medium for transferring data/knowledge/ideas. The same can be accomplished by different means. While I thoroughly enjoy reading it's the final result of learning that I enjoy most and if I can achieve that through other means such as audio books, TV, books, or just being my ear to listen to wisdom then so be it.

Here is where you get to scorn me. My values for looking for a mate was was she HOT and does she have ethical values. I don't care if we had little in common I can comprise, but with looks and ethics well there is little wiggle room there. I met my wife 25yrs ago and we've been happily together since.

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Old 09-12-2012, 11:24 AM   #135
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For me, a house devoid of books is a deal-breaker. This doesn't imply that being a reader is a deal-maker. Consider this analogy: Having a car is a necessary condition to win a car race. It is not, however, a sufficient condition. Similarly, reading might be a necessary condition to for someone to be a candidate for a relationship. This does not imply that just because someone reads that they are automatically vetted for a relationship. I'd be bored with someone who didn't like science fiction. Someone else might find my interest in science fiction a turn-off. That's life.
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