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Old 09-02-2012, 10:38 PM   #16
JSWolf
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I read more on my Kindle and iPad but when I have to read on my iPhone I think it's just fine. Could it be the book you tested?
I've tested three different eBooks. One is the free Artimus Fowl book. You can get it now to try it. The line spacing is too big for comfortable reading.
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Old 09-02-2012, 10:44 PM   #17
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You cannot compare Reeder or Instapaper to Kindle. I have an iPhone 3G.

I just took a look at the newest Kindle app on my iPhone and iPad and the margins are still large and even worse, the line height is atrocious. It's just way too large. Amazon has botched the current Kindle app. Instead of upgrading it, they've downgraded it.
Seems like you don't use it very often. For your reference I have appended below screen caps from both apps. The width of the margins in all cases is 41 pixels.

A solid wall of text is never desirable. If you think otherwise, you have no concept of the importance of typography and I am thankful you don't work in UI design.


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Old 09-03-2012, 10:15 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
Seems like you don't use it very often. For your reference I have appended below screen caps from both apps. The width of the margins in all cases is 41 pixels.

A solid wall of text is never desirable. If you think otherwise, you have no concept of the importance of typography and I am thankful you don't work in UI design.
First, you are new here to this forum and one of the most important rules is never name call which you did in post 13. The "T" word is not allowed.

Second, you obviously have different views, but I doubt your views are any more important or correct than those of anyone else.

As far as margins go, check out Bluefire. It allows control of margins and line spacing, neither of which are controllable via Kindle on an iPhone. Both should be controllable because the default settings of both or totally too big. It is a big waste of space on a small screen, so there should be an option to set them as you desire and we should not have the settings forced on us as they no are.

Last edited by jswinden; 09-03-2012 at 10:20 AM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:58 AM   #19
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First, you are new here to this forum and one of the most important rules is never name call which you did in post 13. The "T" word is not allowed.
Lol
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Second, you obviously have different views, but I doubt your views are any more important or correct than those of anyone else.
That everyone has different views is a platitude. Mine, at least, have the virtue of reflecting widely-accepted industry standards for iPhone reading apps by professional UI designers.
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As far as margins go, check out Bluefire. It allows control of margins and line spacing, neither of which are controllable via Kindle on an iPhone. Both should be controllable because the default settings of both or totally too big. It is a big waste of space on a small screen, so there should be an option to set them as you desire and we should not have the settings forced on us as they no are.
I would be genuinely curious to see an example of what you consider to be an ideal iPhone reading environment.

You are perhaps right that readers should be given the option to change settings to suit themselves. I just find it difficult to get worked up over the absence of this feature when the current reading experience is pretty close to ideal, especially compared to alternatives like iBooks. Hyperbole about "awful," "unreadable" text just makes me chuckle.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:04 PM   #20
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Who is to say that these professional UI designers actually know what the users want? What valid reason is there for not giving the users a setting of no margins along with differing margin settings? You'd then get the margins you like and I'd get rid of margins I don't like.

Bluefire does a good job with the margins on it's least margins setting. When you have an iPhone, a margin of 41 pixels is too big. The iPhone is only 3.5". Quite small.

I do feel sorry for you because you have the corporate view of things and not the user view. You think that someone who is a professional knows what's best for the user and the user has no clue what's good for them. Have you ever thought that the user knows what's best for the user?

I have a feeling that you may be one of these UI guys who doesn't actually have a clue what the user wants. The idea is to please the user so the user uses your product. I don't use a Kindle because I don't like some of the things forced upon us by the UI guys. I don't like the forced margins. I don't like the font. I don't like the line-height bug in the KF8 code. There are things the programmers should fix and should have fixed yesterday.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:11 AM   #21
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I suspect he thinks his is the only opinion that matters. He makes blanket statements as though they are fact when they are not. He is so new to this forum that he hasn't learned to respect others yet.
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Old 09-04-2012, 10:47 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Who is to say that these professional UI designers actually know what the users want? What valid reason is there for not giving the users a setting of no margins along with differing margin settings? You'd then get the margins you like and I'd get rid of margins I don't like.
It's tempting to assume that there are none. However, withholding customizability may have surprising benefits for client happiness (see The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz). Practically speaking, I have heard from many developers that when users are given too much control over display settings, they manage to screw up the look and feel of the app, which is of course blamed on the developer.

That being said, I don't see a very compelling argument not to include more resizing options (aside from the fact that I don't consider them necessary). However, I do object to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Quote:
Bluefire does a good job with the margins on it's least margins setting. When you have an iPhone, a margin of 41 pixels is too big. The iPhone is only 3.5". Quite small.

I do feel sorry for you because you have the corporate view of things and not the user view. You think that someone who is a professional knows what's best for the user and the user has no clue what's good for them. Have you ever thought that the user knows what's best for the user?

I have a feeling that you may be one of these UI guys who doesn't actually have a clue what the user wants. The idea is to please the user so the user uses your product. I don't use a Kindle because I don't like some of the things forced upon us by the UI guys. I don't like the forced margins. I don't like the font. I don't like the line-height bug in the KF8 code. There are things the programmers should fix and should have fixed yesterday.
See, this is why you cannot be taken seriously. Bluefire, an app which is missing so many features integral to screen reading (one-click highlighting, built-in dictionaries, cloud syncing, Wikipedia and Google integration, progress bar on books in the library, etc.) somehow merits your unequivocal praise because of its margin size while far more advanced ebook apps are called pathetic and terrible. No sense of objectivity.

Last edited by holymadness; 09-04-2012 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 09-04-2012, 12:32 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by holymadness View Post
It's tempting to assume that there are none. However, withholding customizability may have surprising benefits for client happiness (see The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz). Practically speaking, I have heard from many developers that when users are given too much control over display settings, they manage to screw up the look and feel of the app, which is of course blamed on the developer.
So we can't have more customization because users are clueless? That really makes no sense and it a rather silly thing to say.

Quote:
That being said, I don't see a very compelling argument not to include more resizing options (aside from the fact that I don't consider them necessary). However, I do object to throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
But if the setting can be set in such a way that is pleasing to you and pleasing to me, then there is no reason not to have such customization.

Quote:
See, this is why you cannot be taken seriously. Bluefire, an app which is missing so many features integral to screen reading (one-click highlighting, built-in dictionaries, cloud syncing, Wikipedia and Google integration, progress bar on books in the library, etc.) somehow merits your unequivocal praise because of its <i>margin size</i> while far more advanced ebook apps are called pathetic and terrible. No sense of objectivity.
We were discussing margins, not other features. If I want to read on an iPhone, Bluefire would be the app I would use because the iPhone scree is small and the margins used in Kindle are too large. While the margins may be tolerable on an iPad, they are not on an iPhone.

No reading app on a tablet actually needs Wikipedia and Google support as we have a web browser for that. And that will make the app less cluttered. Bluefire does support highlighting. I admit it could use the addition of dictionaries. But as for a progress bar in the library view, I don't actually want such. Bluefire is supposed to be being updated, but it is behind schedule.

Be to get on topic, Bluefire is an example of margins done right unlike both Kindle and iBooks.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:06 PM   #24
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First, you are new here to this forum and one of the most important rules is never name call which you did in post 13. The "T" word is not allowed.

Second, you obviously have different views, but I doubt your views are any more important or correct than those of anyone else.
Yet, you find YOUR personal opinion of someone's behavior of such import that you just had to share!

And you should be a bit more honest when discussing the "T" word. The only reason it's frowned upon around here is because it so easily applies to the half dozen slack-jaws who keep the threads moving with their one-sided, narrow-minded, hate spew. Without them, this place would just be a site about, well, ereaders. How boring would that be?

And as you're the self-appointed arbiter, perhaps you could explain something that has been puzzling me greatly. Why IS Mr. Potato Head wearing a fireman's uniform?
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Old 09-04-2012, 11:53 PM   #25
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Yet, you find YOUR personal opinion of someone's behavior of such import that you just had to share!

And you should be a bit more honest when discussing the "T" word. The only reason it's frowned upon around here is because it so easily applies to the half dozen slack-jaws who keep the threads moving with their one-sided, narrow-minded, hate spew. Without them, this place would just be a site about, well, ereaders. How boring would that be?

And as you're the self-appointed arbiter, perhaps you could explain something that has been puzzling me greatly. Why IS Mr. Potato Head wearing a fireman's uniform?
Yeah, how boring would it be if we just talked about reading books rather than all the crap that has taken over this forum? Wait...that would be sublime actually.

I wonder if you would have the guts to spew that garbage to the fireman's face if not for the veil of anonymity you can so easily hide behind here on the internet. I may not often agree with JSWolf, but he has a right to his opinion. And I'll defend that right to the bitter end....
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Old 09-05-2012, 04:41 AM   #26
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Yeah, how boring would it be if we just talked about reading books rather than all the crap that has taken over this forum? Wait...that would be sublime actually.
But this site isn't about reading, it's about devices.

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I wonder if you would have the guts to spew that garbage to the fireman's face if not for the veil of anonymity you can so easily hide behind here on the internet. I may not often agree with JSWolf, but he has a right to his opinion. And I'll defend that right to the bitter end....
I believe the only thing I questioned was your poor judgement in attempting to reprimand someone else, not, as you suggest, someone's freedom to opine. Me thinks I smell a smokescreen. You have no answer, so you make up something ridiculous.

You see, I just can't resist the rich and ironic goodness of someone making the laughable attempt to correct behavior under the guise of good manners while demonstrating a complete personal lack of the commodity. It's a tedious circle, but it tickles me so.

As for your other question, I most certainly would have no issue asking why Mr. Potato Head is wearing a fireman's costume. Is he really a fireman? Does he see his work as putting out fires in a metaphorical sense? Is it complete and utter whimsy, having no meaning other than, perhaps, a subconscious one?

Is there a more cowardly position than that of trying to suppress curiosity? I ask you this, as I think it's probably the only question you have a true qualification to answer.

I would also suggest you reconsider quoting Voltaire while calling anyone else's point of view garbage.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:02 AM   #27
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In a nutshell, my opinion is give more customization options and chances are, you've made more people happy as they can customize the way they want.

holymadness wants some size of margins. I want no margins or very small margins. Give that to both of us and the same app can do what we both want.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:56 AM   #28
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