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Old 09-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #16
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I have never actually entered the DIAGs mode myself. I really should give that a go just to be familiar with it I suppose. thanks for the excellent references for a 3
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Old 09-04-2012, 05:46 PM   #17
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I have never actually entered the DIAGs mode myself. I really should give that a go just to be familiar with it I suppose. thanks for the excellent references for a 3
There is a (u) : USB device mode that will allow you to delete the ENABLE_DIAGS file name from the user storage.
Then it will go back to being a user Kindle when you next restart it.
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Old 09-04-2012, 06:14 PM   #18
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ah thanks. I will have to read up on that when I do some serious game testing.

much obliged
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:09 PM   #19
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There is also an "exit diags" menu item that deletes ENABLE_DIAGS and reboots.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:31 PM   #20
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I'll keep an eye out for that. Thanks
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:35 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by geekmaster View Post
There is also an "exit diags" menu item that deletes ENABLE_DIAGS and reboots.
Did you notice what version of the diagnostics it was that behaved that way on the K3?
The version number should be top right on the main menu screen.
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Old 09-04-2012, 08:39 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knc1 View Post
Did you notice what version of the diagnostics it was that behaved that way on the K3?
The version number should be top right on the main menu screen.
My K3 with 3.3 firmware (upgraded from older firmwware) has it in the diags exit menu. Is it missing from your newer firmware? I will look at my diags version number after I recharge my K3 battery. Because diags is just a program on the K3 main partition, I would think my 3.3 firmware should have the same diags program as yours. What version of diags do you have?

Last edited by geekmaster; 09-04-2012 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 03:21 AM   #23
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the battery maybe broken

Quote:
Originally Posted by knc1 View Post
3.0volt, no load, on a 3.7volt Li-polymer battery after a night stay is NOT "OK".
Continue to charge it, but if it has been left discharged for "some time" that your first post seems to imply, it may not recover.

The specific order of the messages quoted indicates that the ROM kernel was not successful in starting the eDDR2 RAM, loading the RAM kernel, and transfering control to it.
I.E: it fell back to continuing to run the ROM kernel (perhaps after a low voltage reset).

If charging the battery in the Kindle - -
The battery management has probably defaulted to the 24hour curve - -
Leave the battery to charge to the 3.7 .. 3.8 volt range - which may take days in this case.

O.T:
There is work in progress to help deal with this situation in another thread here.
Yours is at least the third k3 reported in this condition.

The outside charger shows that the battery is in full charge. But the k3flasher still can not turn the Kindle into RAM kernel mode. I'm trying to charge it in the Kindle now.

Can I just leave it when the led light went out after hours begin charging?

Last edited by felonwan; 09-05-2012 at 03:22 AM. Reason: detail
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Did you notice what version of the diagnostics it was that behaved that way on the K3?
The version number should be top right on the main menu screen.
I verified that my recently unboxed K3 with 3.0.2 firmware DOES have a menu item to delete ENABLE_DIAGS file and reboot, just as I had previously described. It is on the main menu, item "D) Disable Audo-run Of Diagnostics". I just tested it. It works just like it always did for me. The diags version is "Shasta-WFO Diagnostics Services, version 5.1.7".

I also verified that my K3 with 3.3 firmware also has this same menu item, and that it works. The diags version is "Shasta Diagnostics Services, version 5.1.6".

It seems strange that my kindle with newer firmware 3.3 has an older diags 5.1.6, when my older firmware 3.0.2 has a newer diags 5.1.7.

Not a terrible surprise considering that my first K4 came with 4.0.1 firmware, but a K4 I ordered many months later came with 4.0.0 firmware.

You should check your diags again to see if it is REALLY missing option "D)" that deletes ENABLE_DIAGS and reboots, or if you just did not notice it when (if) you used diags on your K3. If it is missing from your diags as you seem to imply, then what version is your diags?

Last edited by geekmaster; 09-12-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:31 AM   #25
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I did not imply anything.
I explicitly asked about version and the behavior described.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:40 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felonwan View Post
The outside charger shows that the battery is in full charge. But the k3flasher still can not turn the Kindle into RAM kernel mode. I'm trying to charge it in the Kindle now.

Can I just leave it when the led light went out after hours begin charging?
What "outside charger"? Is it a smart charger? If not, it may not be following the correct charging algorithm required for the kindle battery.

And as mentioned before, perhaps your kindle battery is at end-of-life and has a total charge capacity too small for the kindle to be operational after it boots to the home screen (collections). A "dead" lithium ion battery will act identical to a much smaller GOOD battery, so you cannot rely on what a smart charger says, or what the measured voltage is after charging. You actually have to do a battery discharge analysis over time to determine the available capacity (health) of a lithium battery. Some smart chargers (like mine) have a USB port for a host PC connection, that lets you test a battery and graph the charge and discharge curves. If your measured available capacity is significantly less than the rated capacity, it can be considered "dead" (especially if it only has enough "juice" to boot up your kindle but nothing left to actually USE your kindle).

You really should try a different (newer) battery, even if you need to borrow it from another kindle.
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Old 09-05-2012, 07:41 AM   #27
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I did not imply anything.
I explicitly asked about version and the behavior described.
Your question itself makes that implication, especially in the context of your recommendation to use an alternate method that requires interaction with a host PC to delete ENABLE_DIAGS.

And you STILL did not answer my question about your firmware version in either of the two posts where I requested it. What version is your diags? [Although, if your diags does indeed have the menu option in question, which you never acknowledged or denied other than your "implication by question", your diags version is really a moot point.]

More Info: Implication by question
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex...on_by_question
Quote:
One form of misleading discourse involves presupposing and implying something without stating it explicitly, by phrasing it as a question. ... The person asking the question is thus protected from accusations of making false claims, but still manages to make the implication... The fallacy isn't in the question itself, but rather in the listener's assumption that the question would not have been asked without some evidence to support the supposition. ... In order to have the desired effect, the question must imply something uncommon enough not to be asked without some evidence to the fact.
I suspect that the "behavior described" exists in ALL versions, including yours (despite your "implication by question" to the contrary).

EDIT: In the end, it really does not matter what method you use to get from diags back to main boot mode. You can choose to use the menu option provided for that purpose, or you can use a less obvious method. It is always nice to have multiple methods. The question only arose when it was asked what version of diags I have that DOES have a menu option "behavior" to disable diags.

Last edited by geekmaster; 09-05-2012 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:43 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geekmaster View Post
What "outside charger"? Is it a smart charger? If not, it may not be following the correct charging algorithm required for the kindle battery.

And as mentioned before, perhaps your kindle battery is at end-of-life and has a total charge capacity too small for the kindle to be operational after it boots to the home screen (collections). A "dead" lithium ion battery will act identical to a much smaller GOOD battery, so you cannot rely on what a smart charger says, or what the measured voltage is after charging. You actually have to do a battery discharge analysis over time to determine the available capacity (health) of a lithium battery. Some smart chargers (like mine) have a USB port for a host PC connection, that lets you test a battery and graph the charge and discharge curves. If your measured available capacity is significantly less than the rated capacity, it can be considered "dead" (especially if it only has enough "juice" to boot up your kindle but nothing left to actually USE your kindle).

You really should try a different (newer) battery, even if you need to borrow it from another kindle.
My outside charger is universal for any phone lithium ion battery, the charging volt. is 4.2V and current is 100-300mA.

I tried to charge the battery in the Kindle a day and night, and now the info from k3flashser changed:

$sudo ./k3flasher mx35to2_mmc.bin info
I: found suitable device
E: wrong transfer length, wanted to receive 8 bytes but received 4 bytes.
I: above error can be ignored, it's due to the device being in ROM kernel mode
I: RAM kernel should be running now. Trying to re-open device: .
I: got it.
I: read info
(paused here for about one and a half minute)
E: reading data from device: LIBUSB_ERROR_OTHER
E: aborting. It is suggested you power-cycle the device.
sudo ./k3flasher mx35to2_mmc.bin program kernel ../imgs/mmcblk0p1.img
[sudo] password for wlf:
I: found suitable device
E: wrong transfer length, wanted to receive 8 bytes but received 4 bytes.
I: above error can be ignored, it's due to the device being in ROM kernel mode
I: RAM kernel should be running now. Trying to re-open device: .
I: got it.
(paused here for about one and a half minute)
E: reading data from device: LIBUSB_ERROR_OTHER
E: aborting. It is suggested you power-cycle the device.


Now I just leave the kindle charged again and wait...

What is the error "LIBUSB_ERROR_OTHER"?

Last edited by felonwan; 09-05-2012 at 10:58 PM. Reason: detail
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Old 09-06-2012, 06:24 AM   #29
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My K3 is nine months old and has lead a very sheltered life.
I just put it into "DIAGS" mode and pulled up the factory battery management report screen:

Edit: The original numbers here where taken while the K3 was connected to a bad wall charger.

Charge level: 100%
Terminal voltage: 4.185 volts
Current draw: 73.899 ma. (positive == charge, negative == discharge)
Charger draw limit: On
Charger mode: On
Battery temperature: 80 degrees F
Charge cycle count: 15
Charge learn count: 14
Battery LMD: 1823 mAh
Battery Flags: 0xA4

The above copied at the point where the led went from orange to green.
The charge curve had started out at an 800 ma. rate on the (good) wall charger and has been tapering off starting at about 93% of full charge.
EDIT: The above observation indicated that the charge current limiter had failed. Which lead to the death of the wall charger. When a new wall charger was used, it lived long enough for the USB charge circuitry to self destruct.
The main problem here (other than the hardware failures) is that the control firmware for the charge limit checks for: Off, 100ma, 500ma, Other.
And the author assumed that "Other" would be somewhere in range, not over-range. (The wall charger can supply 850ma but the K3 circuitry is only good for 500ma).

The good: It failed while I was watching it - so I know how and why.
The bad: I now need to return my K3 with its dead wall charger and smoked USB port circuitry.
I guess that is progress.
Unless the end-user happens to be watching the battery management diagnostics screen in its report loop while the stuff fails and the K3 self-destructs . . .
The first indication they will have is a battery that is too discharged to boot the machine, not even far enough to display a "get it fixed" screen.

Last edited by knc1; 09-06-2012 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:56 AM   #30
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I found that the battery have 4 electrodes. I don't know the function of the two with signs of c and d. It is properly the circuits of security.

Is that possible to cheat the Kindle by using a different battery or a AC adapter?
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