E Ink display at IFA -- where are the upgrades for readers?

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

Sarcasm aside, paper technology has changed in the last centuries.
Modern magazines and comics, for example, are printed on much smoother stock than previously.

ah, the retina display of paper. shiny but not necessarily better, as versatile or more resilient than good old paper.

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Not at all true. Recycled paper is relatively new. Clay papers for instance, cloth papers, lots of innovation even in the past decade or two. Ask any printer.

all those have lousy contrast when compared to good old paper.

good old paper is all we need, aside from love.

[din155]

Originally Posted by CommonReader

For the saturated markets product innovations are required to attract existing owners of e-book readers to upgrade. Instead we are rather seeing a reduced range of options. All the major readers are quite similar now.
We aren't even seeing 5" and 7" readers any more.

Maybe it’s because these models are coming out from the same shop but with different labels. One obvious way to reduce cost is to cut down different models and concentrate on providing better software on a single model.
For me, the only thing that will force me upgrade will be if my current reader breaks down or there is a model with more than 7 inch screen having same weight as current 6 inch ereaders. I don’t see any chance of that happening at the moment.

[Namekuseijin]

Originally Posted by Isles8008

while you and I may know the major difference between E Ink and LCD, new consumers and disgruntled E Ink users can easily be persuaded to try out a retina display. If E Ink wants to stay viable in a highly competitive market, they need to upgrade their screen technology

tablet users are from a generation that doesn't dig reading, simple as that. They may read if needed for a job or something, but they really get all their entertainment fix from movies and games.

Even if E Ink updates their screen to do HD color video playback this won't make consumers buy e-readers anyway. Or they'll grab an e-reader to use as a video-playing tablet.

[afa]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

It plateaued but not because of lack of interest, simply because it was saturated. Everyone who could afford one already had one. They wouldn't upgrade until their old one failed.
...
Most people who I know well regard their eReader in the same manner as they regard a home appliance. Useful, valued, appreciated, they wouldn't like to be without it, but like any other appliance unless it fails they are unlikely to to upgrade. The same demographic who doesn't upgrade their phone until they either change carrier or it fails to work is at the core of eReader ownership.

And that, by the way, is not a good thing from the manufacturers' point of view. A product that even its satisfied users only purchase once a decade isn't what succeeds in the tech industry today. In any case, your appliance comparison doesn't really work, for the simple reason that home appliances are, by and large, universally required items. Virtually every household would need them, therefore the sales are assured. eReaders are catering to a much smaller niche. So when you take an already small niche, and then couple that with the very saturation that you mentioned, the outlook is not great.

By the way, why the recent interest in dual screens from tablet manufacturers if they are winning this imaginary war of yours? If people are truly happy to read on a high res LCD screen, why bother with an ePaper screen on the same device?

Why indeed? That question is the very reason we are not likely to see any such device in the near future. Trying to support the validity of eInk by relating it to vaporware doesn't really do a lot to further your point.

You see, even the tablet manufacturers don't think that they are winning.

Um, yeah. Right. Great point. Tablet manufacturers are trembling in their boots about the PRS-T2. Watch out, iPad.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

ah, the retina display of paper. shiny but not necessarily better, as versatile or more resilient than good old paper.



all those have lousy contrast when compared to good old paper.

good old paper is all we need, aside from love.

Do you mean to say that the labels on all that expensive coated paper that claim to allow a higher contrast and resolution is less than honest? Gee, what is the world coming to?

[TimW]

I, for one, would be extremely pleased to see an improved e-ink screen in the new Kindle. If the change in the new version is only a front-lit screen, I don't know if I'll purchase it. I don't really need that. If it has an HD screen: near certainty.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by afa

And that, by the way, is not a good thing from the manufacturers' point of view. A product that even its satisfied users only purchase once a decade isn't what succeeds in the tech industry today. In any case, your appliance comparison doesn't really work, for the simple reason that home appliances are, by and large, universally required items.

It works fine. Many people regard entertainment technology as "required".

Originally Posted by afa

Why indeed? That question is the very reason we are not likely to see any such device in the near future. Trying to support the validity of eInk by relating it to vaporware doesn't really do a lot to further your point.

Um, yeah. Right. Great point. Tablet manufacturers are trembling in their boots about the PRS-T2. Watch out, iPad.

Vapourware? Why has Amazon just applied for a patent on such a device?

What is this all about?

[afa]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

As for cheap tablets, as they are not the same thing I can't see them having any lasting effect on the eReader market. Saying that they do is like saying that people will stop buying electric drills because a range of cheap Chinese power saws has been released. They are both tools and each has its purpose; one cannot replace the other.

That's a terrible analogy.

A drill cannot replace a saw, but a tablet definitely can replace an eReader, for the simple reason that you can read ebooks on a tablet.

Cheap tablets might even aid eReader sales when the people who buy them discover that they don't make very good eReaders.

Now we're just diving headlong into wishful thinking.

Why else would so many who already own a tablet go out an buy a dedicated eReader?

How many, exactly? You put that claim in big, bold letters, so I assume that the number is, indeed, very significant.

[afa]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Vapourware? Why has Amazon just applied for a patent on such a device?

What is this all about?

It's called a prototype. Once you are able to buy that device, then we can talk about it being more than vaporware.

And Amazon applying for a patent means precisely nothing. Plenty of people apply for patents for plenty of things. Doesn't mean they will actually manufacture such a device. Just that they *could* one day, maybe, sort of, hopefully, manufacture it.

Until then - vaporware.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by afa

That's a terrible analogy.

A drill cannot replace a saw, but a tablet definitely can replace an eReader, for the simple reason that you can read ebooks on a tablet.


Now we're just diving headlong into wishful thinking.

No, I am recollecting. I bought a Kindle DX AFTER buying and using a tablet. As did my wife, many work colleagues etc. If you read through a lot of the other threads here you find quite a few who segued from a tablet to a dedicated eReader. I am not unique.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

No, I am recollecting. I bought a Kindle DX AFTER buying and using a tablet. As did my wife, many work colleagues etc. If you read through a lot of the other threads here you find quite a few who segued from a tablet to a dedicated eReader. I am not unique.

And I know several people who owned eInk readers, then subsequently bought iPads. Anecdotal evidence isn't very useful.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by afa

It's called a prototype. Once you are able to buy that device, then we can talk about it being more than vaporware.

And Amazon applying for a patent means precisely nothing. Plenty of people apply for patents for plenty of things. Doesn't mean they will actually manufacture such a device. Just that they *could* one day, maybe, sort of, hopefully, manufacture it.

Until then - vaporware.

Vapoware applies to software that is rumoured but not developed. When the company who makes the eInk screens say that they are working on prototypes in conjunction with other companies you can be pretty sure that those prototypes will hit the market. When Amazon takes out a patent on technology that is core to their business, they aren't just playing.

But if you really want to get into denial, tell me that the Entourage dual screen device was vapourware. It wasn't very successful, but it wasn't vapourware.

[DarkScribe]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

And I know several people who owned eInk readers, then subsequently bought iPads. Anecdotal evidence isn't very useful.

As do I, it supports what I am saying, that owning both types of device is becoming commonplace. Anecdotal evidence can be very useful. Much research is aggregated anecdotal reports. What do you think a survey is?

[afa]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

No, I am recollecting. I bought a Kindle DX AFTER buying and using a tablet. As did my wife, many work colleagues etc. If you read through a lot of the other threads here you find quite a few who segued from a tablet to a dedicated eReader. I am not unique.

I doubt anyone in the world is truly unique, though some flatter themselves so.

Look, I get your soft-hearted stance for eReaders. I like them, too. I would never want to read books on a tablet if I had the choice. So I agree with you (except about buying the DX. That's just terribly overpriced.) about the virtues of eInk. But I might not have the choice for much longer.

But you really are thinking wishfully (huh?) if you think that tablet sales do not affect eReaders. They do. For every person you know who buys a tablet and an eReader, there are a dozen who will not buy an eReader because "I can just read my books on my iPad/Kindle Fire/Nexus 7." The last two, in particular, are a threat to eReaders because unlike the chunkier and heavier and more ungainly 10" tablets, 7" tablets have a comfortable enough form factor that they *can* be used for reading in comfort.

eReaders might not have wanted to compete with tablets, but they have been dragged into it, nonetheless, even if not by choice.

[afa]

Originally Posted by DarkScribe

Vapoware applies to software that is rumoured but not developed.

From Wiki:
"Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled."

So I repeat: until such devices actually make it to market, I will consider them vaporware.

When the company who makes the eInk screens say that they are working on prototypes in conjunction with other companies you can be pretty sure that those prototypes will hit the market.

No, I cannot. Didn't you say you write about technology? Are you telling me you are truly that disbelieving of the idea that an announced prototype might not come to fruition? Seriously? You've never heard of this happening?

When Amazon takes out a patent on technology that is core to their business, they aren't just playing.

Neither are they signing an affidavit that they will, come hell or high water, put that patent into production. It just means they have a patent on the technology, to safeguard against the possibility of someone else getting to it before they can.

But if you really want to get into denial, tell me that the Entourage dual screen device was vapourware. It wasn't very successful, but it wasn't vapourware.

Well, okay. Fine. If you really want to hold a resounding failure as your trump card in the debate, then yeah, you're right. The Entourage Edge did exist.

Briefly.