Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-02-2012, 08:26 AM   #31
rhadin
Literacy = Understanding
rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.rhadin ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
rhadin's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,178
Karma: 15413180
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: The World of Books
Device: Sony PRS-950, Nook Tablet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terisa de morgan View Post
That some text-to-speech option that it's disabled at almost all the ebooks? And I agree, get a Kindle device, you'll see the wide selection at your library.
According to one article I read, I think it was on Ars Technica but I'm not sure, about this incident, the only device that would meet the requirements is a iPad. According to the article -- and I don't personally know whether it is accurate -- the newer Kindle models like the Touch and the Fire wouldn't qualify for several reasons. Come to think of it, how would the iPad -- or any current device -- qualify? They all rely on touchscreens to access most commands.
rhadin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 08:57 AM   #32
alanHd
Addict
alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.alanHd ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 322
Karma: 1403383
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Touch, Ipod Touch, Ipad Air
It defies belief. Will they sue art galleries cos blind people cant enjoy the portraits.

Cant we have a common sense law to overide all this bull.
alanHd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 09:59 AM   #33
meeera
Wizard
meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.meeera ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
meeera's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,316
Karma: 8097760
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Australia
Device: Kobo Aura, iPad MiniRet, MBP;support AuraHD,Kindle,2xKobo Glos
alanHd, art galleries and art education courses can and do accommodate visitors with visual impairments. If you wanted to learn more about this, you could maybe start somewhere like artbeyondsight.org .

It seems to me that whenever this sort of issue comes up, a lot of the more abrupt and dismissive criticism arises from a place of simple ignorance about disabilities and adaptive technology and accommodations.
meeera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 10:09 AM   #34
tubemonkey
monkey on the fringe
tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
tubemonkey's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,176
Karma: 83999283
Join Date: May 2010
Device: FireHDX8, FireHD6, FirePhn, Nex7, K4S, ClipZip
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
Come to think of it, how would the iPad -- or any current device -- qualify? They all rely on touchscreens to access most commands.
Interesting point.

Anyone care to answer that one?
tubemonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 11:01 AM   #35
fjtorres
Grand Sorcerer
fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fjtorres ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 8,049
Karma: 61732902
Join Date: May 2009
Location: 26 kly from Sgr A*
Device: PRS-T1, KT, PB701/IQ, K2, PB360, BeBook One, Axim51v, TC1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
Interesting point.

Anyone care to answer that one?
Accessibility on touch screen and ebook readers is through audio menus.
Kindle's function was called Voice Guide and it was provided by the TTS engine.
Here's a review:

http://www.kindleboards.com/index.ph...c=35052.0;wap2

As for why the KT doesn't do it:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/forum/kindle...x21ZG11D33HO8H
fjtorres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 12:01 PM   #36
gastan
Addict
gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.gastan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 219
Karma: 801624
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: US Pacific Northwest
Device: LePan II
I am very familiar with ADA requirements. The last 8-10 years that I worked before I retired was spent almost exclusively re-modeling retail stores to comply with the ADA laws. Our main client was a very large (inter)national chain and it was very pro-active concerning the U.S. ADA.

The ADA laws are much more intrusive and far-reaching than most people are aware of and they effect anyone that wants to do business with the public in any way; and it only takes one person to complain to set a bureaucratic investigation into motion. Whenever I try to convey to someone just how strict, rigid, and uncompromising these laws can be I am usually met with disbelief and written off as an alarmist. This has happened on this board, in other threads where this subject has come up.

I don't see any library or educational e-reader program succeeding until the manufacturers comply with the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines the NFB mention, at least not on a large scale. Some smaller districts may succeed ..... until that one person complains.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Fortunately, ADA has limits.
Not many.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
That may be grandfathered since they were doing it before the ADA was passed.
There is no such thing as a grandfather clause anywhere in the ADA. I know this from personal experience, having fought a losing battle with the DOJ over it on one project.

My experience with ADA may have been centered on building/construction issues and not technology but I say ..... you don't spend years looking at and searching thru the ADA rule books on a daily basis without running across and perusing the sections dealing with other issues.
gastan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 12:59 PM   #37
vaughnmr
Ebook Reader
vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.vaughnmr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 604
Karma: 3205128
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Texas
Device: Kindle 3, HTC Evo, HTC View
I too am familiar with the ADA requirements, having spent the last 12 years in architectural design. I believe it's one of the best things that have happened to building design, although there is a lot of resistance from the "old school" folks, the ones that will often say "but that's the way we've always done it!". These same folks are usually the ones that resist the new code requirements for structural design also.

There is no grandfather clause for older buildings; however, they are only required to do what work is considered "readily achievable to do so".

Existing Facilities

Title III Entities: Places of Businesses

Facilities built prior to the passage of the ADA, still have an obligation to remove barriers when it is readily achievable to do so.

Readily achievable means easily accomplishable and able to be carried out without much difficulty or expense.

Many building features that are common in older facilities such as narrow doors, a step or a round door knob at an entrance door, or a crowded check-out or store aisle are barriers to access by people with disabilities. Removing barriers by ramping a curb, widening an entrance door, installing visual alarms, or designating an accessible parking space is often essential to ensure equal opportunity for people with disabilities. Because removing these and other common barriers can be simple and inexpensive in some cases and difficult and costly in others, the regulations for the ADA provide a flexible approach to compliance. This practical approach requires that barriers be removed in existing facilities only when it is readily achievable to do so. The ADA does not require existing buildings to meet the ADA's standards for newly constructed facilities.

Note: There is no "Grandfather Clause" in the ADA. All buildings, regardless of age, are required to remove whatever barriers that are considered "readily achiveable".
vaughnmr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 01:03 PM   #38
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,405
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhadin View Post
Come to think of it, how would the iPad -- or any current device -- qualify? They all rely on touchscreens to access most commands.
The iPad is completely accessible "out of the box" for blind people; it's won awards for its accessibility. It has an access mode called "voiceover". When this is enabled, you get a spoken representation of each UI element as you brush your fingers over the screen. You tap to active something, just as a sighted person would.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 01:17 PM   #39
BWinmill
Wizard
BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.BWinmill ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 1,812
Karma: 15164032
Join Date: Sep 2011
Device: Sony PRS-T1
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanHd View Post
It defies belief. Will they sue art galleries cos blind people cant enjoy the portraits.

Cant we have a common sense law to overide all this bull.
"Bull" depends upon the context.

A number of people on these forums have mentioned using ereaders because of visual impairments, simply because they can enlarge the font size and other visual features of the page. (Remember, visual impairments doesn't mean zero vision.) It is also possible to enable text-to-speech on many readers, and for many books. So yes, there is a demand.

But I would think that the ability to make accommodations is a much bigger factor. The blind can demand audio books, braille, etc., but the library can restrict their acquisitions due to availability and demand. It is a limitation of the medium after all. Ereaders are a different story though. There are no technical reasons why accommodations cannot be made for the visually impaired when there are devices with text-to-speech functionality. It would also be trivial to develop a reader that can interface with braille devices.

Or to use your art gallery example: I would have issues with them forcing random art galleries to make accommodations for the blind. On the other hand, it is a different story once they have guides (human or automated) providing tours. Once you start considering infrastructure that will allow you to make accommodations, it really ought to be a moral and legal obligation to ensure that the accommodations are made.
BWinmill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 01:20 PM   #40
tubemonkey
monkey on the fringe
tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
tubemonkey's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,176
Karma: 83999283
Join Date: May 2010
Device: FireHDX8, FireHD6, FirePhn, Nex7, K4S, ClipZip
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
The iPad is completely accessible "out of the box" for blind people; it's won awards for its accessibility. It has an access mode called "voiceover". When this is enabled, you get a spoken representation of each UI element as you brush your fingers over the screen. You tap to active something, just as a sighted person would.
So does the iPod touch. No need to waste money on an expensive iPad when a much cheaper iPod touch does the same thing.
tubemonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 01:24 PM   #41
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,405
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
So does the iPod touch. No need to waste money on an expensive iPad when a much cheaper iPod touch does the same thing.
For this usage, then yes, I totally agree with you. Obviously for a blind person the small size of the iPod's screen is irrelevant. My only thought is that perhaps they feel that the iPads will have other uses.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 01:29 PM   #42
tubemonkey
monkey on the fringe
tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.tubemonkey ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
tubemonkey's Avatar
 
Posts: 17,176
Karma: 83999283
Join Date: May 2010
Device: FireHDX8, FireHD6, FirePhn, Nex7, K4S, ClipZip
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
For this usage, then yes, I totally agree with you. Obviously for a blind person the small size of the iPod's screen is irrelevant. My only thought is that perhaps they feel that the iPads will have other uses.
I can't think of any. If larger print is required for the visually impaired, then a larger sized font on a Nook or Kindle will do the trick. Again, saving lots of money.
tubemonkey is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 02:38 PM   #43
Andrew H.
Grand Master of Flowers
Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Andrew H. ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 2,193
Karma: 8233324
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Naptown
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle 3 (aka Keyboard), iPhone, iPad 3 (not for reading)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnemicOak View Post
The Google Nexus (and some other Android devices) has accessibility features similar to those of the ipad for a lot less too. Of course if the iPads/Touches are primarily to be bought and loaned out as reading devices there's no need for the most expensive versions, as mentioned in the article, of either device. The cheapest versions would be fine.
Android's accessibility has gotten a lot better, but it's still not as good as that in iOS.

http://digitalunion.osu.edu/2012/06/...ry-accessible/

From the article:
Quote:
However, accessibility of the Android platform has been a problem from the beginning. With this new tablet and operating system, there is some decent news from the perspective of accessibility for people with disabilities, and I will get to that. But after many hours of experimentation and testing, I have to admit Google Android accessibility remains undercooked. It still feels fragmented, inconsistent, and just plain “beta.” It contrasts starkly with the exceptional accessibility of Apple iOS.
(The article is talking about ICS).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tubemonkey View Post
I can't think of any. If larger print is required for the visually impaired, then a larger sized font on a Nook or Kindle will do the trick. Again, saving lots of money.
There is a range of visually impaired, including people who can't see at all (for whom a Touch would probably suffice), people whose needs can be met by the larger font on an eink reader, and people whose needs can be met by a larger, brighter font on a tablet but whose needs can't be met by a larger font on an e-ink readers, particularly due to contrast issues. (That's why computer operating systems and iOS (and maybe Android now) have a high contrast mode.

People who can use a larger font on an e-readers may not need any accomodation, depending on whether the menus on the eink device are sufficiently large. They wouldn't really be affected by this complaint, since they are probably able to use existing devices.

For others, a mixture of tablets and touches might be more cost effective, depending on the number of individuals in each category and whether there is some additional cost in maintaining two different devices (I can't really see how there could be, though).
Andrew H. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 03:57 PM   #44
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 38,423
Karma: 19135915
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Kobo Aura H2), Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T1, nook STR, iPad 1, iPhone 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by BWinmill View Post
"Bull" depends upon the context.

A number of people on these forums have mentioned using ereaders because of visual impairments, simply because they can enlarge the font size and other visual features of the page. (Remember, visual impairments doesn't mean zero vision.) It is also possible to enable text-to-speech on many readers, and for many books. So yes, there is a demand.
On a Kindle Touch, while you can use TTS with eBooks that do not disable TTS, you don't have TTS for the user interface. So for a blind person, getting to the book you actually want or trying to find out what is on the device isn't going to happen because the UI needs TTS.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-02-2012, 05:26 PM   #45
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 65,405
Karma: 43770933
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: Kindle Voyage, iPad Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, N7
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
On a Kindle Touch, while you can use TTS with eBooks that do not disable TTS, you don't have TTS for the user interface. So for a blind person, getting to the book you actually want or trying to find out what is on the device isn't going to happen because the UI needs TTS.
Yes, that's precisely the point. The iPad has a "spoken" UI out of the box, the Kindle has no spoken UI.
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Which is the best eReader for library books? Carolshusband Which one should I buy? 45 12-16-2010 10:50 PM
How do I transfer library to new ereader? gdaydigger Kobo Reader 8 08-13-2010 12:03 PM
Compare calibre library with ereader library Danthier Calibre 3 06-16-2010 12:58 AM
So which is the best ereader for library books? ensyed Which one should I buy? 14 11-08-2009 03:38 PM
Kansas library offers free podcasts, online programs Brian News 2 09-12-2005 12:28 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:05 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.