Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Apple Devices

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 08-25-2012, 09:01 PM   #31
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
Cite?
Given that 80% of the e-book market is American, and that the next largest market is the UK (where the Kindle is more dominant than it is in the US), I'm not sure that this is correct.
The world does not end at the US borders. Amazon is not as prevalent in other countries where ePub is more popular.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:02 PM   #32
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
We hold iBooks incompatibility against Apple. So yes,we can hold Amazon's incompatibility with the industry standard ePub. ePub is the standard world wide. There are more people reading ePub then reading Amazon's eBooks.
If you admit that there is incompatibility inside Epub then the Kindle's external incompatibility is less important.

And which Epub is the standard?

B&N, Kobo, and Apple each have their own fixed layout format; the content is not compatible. There's also Kobo's own internal format as well as Apple's implementation of Epub3 as well as the iBooks format.

So which is it?
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Enthusiast
Old 08-25-2012, 09:11 PM   #33
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
If you admit that there is incompatibility inside Epub then the Kindle's external incompatibility is less important.

And which Epub is the standard?

B&N, Kobo, and Apple each have their own fixed layout format; the content is not compatible. There's also Kobo's own internal format as well as Apple's implementation of Epub3 as well as the iBooks format.

So which is it?
Fixed layout is not ePub. It's something else. So we don't count that at all. B&N's ePub is box standard ePub just with a different flavor of DRM. Everyone else (except iBooks) uses standard Adobe Adept DRM with standard ePub. There are more readers, more programs, more apps that handle ePub. eBooks don't start and end with the USA. The world is into eBooks and ePub is the mot used reflowable format out there (at present).
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:21 PM   #34
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Fixed layout is not ePub. It's something else. So we don't count that at all. B&N's ePub is box standard ePub just with a different flavor of DRM. Everyone else (except iBooks) uses standard Adobe Adept DRM with standard ePub. There are more readers, more programs, more apps that handle ePub. eBooks don't start and end with the USA. The world is into eBooks and ePub is the mot used reflowable format out there (at present).
Nope. You're completely wrong about the fixed layout not counting as Epub. The IDPF calls it that and so do the 3 companies. And do you know what? They all meet the IDPF Epub spec.

There's simply no way for you to get around the fact that your beloved "industry standard" Epub has internal incompatibilities. So long as that remains true the Kindle format can't be faulted for not being compatible.

Also, you ignored my point about the new iBooks format, which is yet another form of Epub.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:28 PM   #35
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Nope. You're completely wrong about the fixed layout not counting as Epub. The IDPF calls it that and so do the 3 companies. And do you know what? They all meet the IDPF Epub spec.

There's simply no way for you to get around the fact that your beloved "industry standard" Epub has internal incompatibilities. So long as that remains true the Kindle format can't be faulted for not being compatible.

Also, you ignored my point about the new iBooks format, which is yet another form of Epub.
If they do not meet the ePub 3 specification for fixed layout, then they are not ePub regardless of what they say. There is not another form of ePub. It either is or it isn't and in this case, it isn't.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-25-2012, 09:38 PM   #36
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
If they do not meet the ePub 3 specification for fixed layout, then they are not ePub regardless of what they say. There is not another form of ePub. It either is or it isn't and in this case, it isn't.
Gee, we sure are lucky to have you around to pass judgement on what qualifies as Epub. Who knows what would happen without the Arbiter.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 02:43 AM   #37
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 64,021
Karma: 42472847
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Kobo H2O, N7
Jon is absolutely correct, Nate. The iBooks fixed-layout format is an Apple-specific format; it's not conformant to the ePub standard and cannot be read on anything except the iBooks app.

The ePub3 standard does indeed specify a standard for fixed-layout books, but iBooks is not (currently) conformant with it (and neither is any other reader that I'm aware of).
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 05:35 AM   #38
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,224
Karma: 10210627
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony PRS505, Nook Color(CM7), iPad3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The world does not end at the US borders. Amazon is not as prevalent in other countries where ePub is more popular.
But you have made a specific claim (that more ePub books are sold than Kindle books), and been asked for a citation for that.
Do you have one?
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 05:37 AM   #39
murraypaul
Interested Bystander
murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.murraypaul ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,224
Karma: 10210627
Join Date: Jun 2008
Device: Sony PRS505, Nook Color(CM7), iPad3
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Fixed layout is not ePub. It's something else. So we don't count that at all. B&N's ePub is box standard ePub just with a different flavor of DRM. Everyone else (except iBooks) uses standard Adobe Adept DRM with standard ePub. There are more readers, more programs, more apps that handle ePub. eBooks don't start and end with the USA. The world is into eBooks and ePub is the mot used reflowable format out there (at present).
So B&N, Kodo and Apple fixed layout ePub's aren't 'standard ePubs'
B&N ePubs aren't standard because of the DRM.
Apple ePubs aren't standard because of the DRM.
Still think that there are more 'standard ePubs' sold than Kindle books?
murraypaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:34 AM   #40
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
So B&N, Kodo and Apple fixed layout ePub's aren't 'standard ePubs'
B&N ePubs aren't standard because of the DRM.
Apple ePubs aren't standard because of the DRM.
Still think that there are more 'standard ePubs' sold than Kindle books?
For B&N ePub with DRM, when you remove the DRM, you have a standard ePub. Also, all those ePub B&N sells without DRM such as Tor, Smashwords, self-published and so forth are all standard DRM.

iBooks eBooks may or may not be standard ePub under the hood once the DRM is removed. Same maybe goes for iBooks eBooks without DRM.

But other then B&N & Apple, all other reflowable ePub (with Adobe Adept DRM) is standard ePub. Outside the USA, there is no B&N and Apple selling their flavors of things outside the USA is a vast wasteland. So outside the USA, most ePub sold is standard ePub.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:37 AM   #41
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by murraypaul View Post
But you have made a specific claim (that more ePub books are sold than Kindle books), and been asked for a citation for that.
Do you have one?
There are no sales figures from Amazon. There are no sales figures from B&N. But given that there are more brands of readers sold that support ePub and there and given that Amazon was late to the game in other countries, would you not think that ePub would be stronger outside the USA?
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:45 AM   #42
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Jon is absolutely correct, Nate. The iBooks fixed-layout format is an Apple-specific format; it's not conformant to the ePub standard and cannot be read on anything except the iBooks app.
I'm sorry, but no. Discussion for the iBooks format often touched on how Apple corrupted the EPub format. Many in digital publishing see it as a form of Epub.

Oh, and you ignored the rest of my points.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:48 AM   #43
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
There are no sales figures from Amazon. There are no sales figures from B&N. But given that there are more brands of readers sold that support ePub and there and given that Amazon was late to the game in other countries, would you not think that ePub would be stronger outside the USA?
Amazon took the Kindle international in mid 2009. That was before Kobo as well as before Epub really got started. How exactly does that qualify as late?
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:52 AM   #44
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,706
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
I'm sorry, but no. Discussion for the iBooks format often touched on how Apple corrupted the ePub format. Many in digital publishing see it as a form of Epub.
Just because many think it's ePub does not make it so. It's not ePub because it does not conform to the ePub 3 fixed layout specification. It's just Apple doing things their own way.

So if I call KF8 ePub, would that make it ePub? No, it would not. Calling Apple's fixed layout format ePub is the same thing. It's not ePub.
JSWolf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-26-2012, 06:56 AM   #45
Nate the great
Sir Penguin of Edinburgh
Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nate the great ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nate the great's Avatar
 
Posts: 10,525
Karma: 3569525
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DC Metro area
Device: Shake a stick plus 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Just because many think it's ePub does not make it so. It's not ePub because it does not conform to the ePub 3 fixed layout specification. It's just Apple doing things their own way.

So if I call KF8 ePub, would that make it ePub? No, it would not. Calling Apple's fixed layout format ePub is the same thing. It's not ePub.
Thank you, Arbiter, for clearing that up.

But you're still wrong.
Nate the great is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
amazon, epub, kindle

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Paulo Coelho Sells 99-cent eBooks (Kindle/Nook - US and Canada only, for now) Wetdogeared Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 2 05-03-2012 10:08 AM
Kindle 3 no longer on Amazon UK evwool Amazon Kindle 19 10-21-2011 01:46 AM
Kindle no longer available in Europe (via amazon.com)?! Frawan Amazon Kindle 13 10-14-2011 07:40 AM
pocketbook-usa.com no longer sells/supports PB 301? speedtouch PocketBook 13 10-27-2010 11:04 AM
Amazon No Longer Selling US Only Kindle dhill Amazon Kindle 12 12-18-2009 08:01 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:12 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.