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Old 08-18-2012, 08:07 AM   #16
Delotte231
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Hi guys.

I'm not embarrassed at all. I had assumed Amazon had previously sold ePubs which was wrong - obviously, in retrospect - but the problem with Amazon's attitude remains unfortunately true.

I never went away and was just enjoying watching the conversation
At least they were kind enough to give you a call back. Many CSRs wouldn't even bother especially if the complaint was not valid in the first place.
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Old 08-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #17
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Now we need for someone to phone up Barnes & Noble and Apple and complain that they don't sell ebooks that work on a Kindle.

Apparently they don't care about alienating a whole section of the internet buying public either.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by JMikeD View Post
Now we need for someone to phone up Barnes & Noble and Apple and complain that they don't sell ebooks that work on a Kindle.

Apparently they don't care about alienating a whole section of the internet buying public either.
Actually it is Kindle that doesn't care to support industry standard formats. They have a proprietary format that is unique to them. Amazon doesn't seem to care about alienating the rest of the entire eBook industry by requiring publishers to use their special format which until the KF8 was archaic.

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Old 08-20-2012, 02:54 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
Actually it is Kindle that doesn't care to support industry standard formats. They have a proprietary format that is unique to them. Amazon doesn't seem to care about alienating the rest of the entire eBook industry by requiring publishers to use their special format which until the KF8 was archaic.

Dale
All of the major sellers use a proprietary format. Even if it's bundled in ePub, putting proprietary DRM on it makes it no better than Kindle books in that regard.
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Old 08-20-2012, 03:28 PM   #20
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All of the major sellers use a proprietary format. Even if it's bundled in ePub, putting proprietary DRM on it makes it no better than Kindle books in that regard.
You make a point, however most sellers use a single DRM system that permits the user to buy the same product from a number of sellers. It is generally not the seller but the publisher that establishes DRM. But to keep this information correct, Apple does use a proprietary DRM scheme. However the reader can use non-DRM products formatted in industry standard ePub or PDF formats.

Dale
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Old 08-22-2012, 02:26 PM   #21
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You make a point, however most sellers use a single DRM system that permits the user to buy the same product from a number of sellers. It is generally not the seller but the publisher that establishes DRM. But to keep this information correct, Apple does use a proprietary DRM scheme. However the reader can use non-DRM products formatted in industry standard ePub or PDF formats.

Dale
Yeah, I noticed that. At the very least they allow you to purchase books outside of the ecosystem, while preventing you from using what you buy from them in other ecosystems. It really brings out the "I" in iOS.
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Old 08-22-2012, 05:24 PM   #22
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Yeah, I noticed that. At the very least they allow you to purchase books outside of the ecosystem, while preventing you from using what you buy from them in other ecosystems. It really brings out the "I" in iOS.
Exactly like Amazon except Apple iBook will read industry standard ePub books without DRM, unlike Amazon.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:12 PM   #23
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Exactly like Amazon except Apple iBook will read industry standard ePub books without DRM, unlike Amazon.
So you would defend ePub on the basis of it being an "industry standard"? It isn't proprietary, but that doesn't make it standard. Are there any reliable figures for the number of ebooks sold with each format?
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:31 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JMikeD View Post
Now we need for someone to phone up Barnes & Noble and Apple and complain that they don't sell ebooks that work on a Kindle.

Apparently they don't care about alienating a whole section of the internet buying public either.
We are not taking a giant step backward for eBooks.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:32 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
Actually it is Kindle that doesn't care to support industry standard formats. They have a proprietary format that is unique to them. Amazon doesn't seem to care about alienating the rest of the entire eBook industry by requiring publishers to use their special format which until the KF8 was archaic.

Dale
And given the bugs in the 4.1 and 5.1 firmware version for the eink Kindles, KF8 is not a reader friendly format. Amazon needs to fix the line-height bug or the reading experience with KF8 eBooks will be sub-optimal.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:34 PM   #26
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So you would defend ePub on the basis of it being an "industry standard"? It isn't proprietary, but that doesn't make it standard. Are there any reliable figures for the number of ebooks sold with each format?
ePub is an industry standard because everyone but (Apple is iffy) Amazon supports ePub. When you look at sales world wide, ePub sells more then Amazon's formats.
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Old 08-25-2012, 01:47 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
All of the major sellers use a proprietary format. Even if it's bundled in ePub, putting proprietary DRM on it makes it no better than Kindle books in that regard.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
You make a point, however most sellers use a single DRM system that permits the user to buy the same product from a number of sellers. It is generally not the seller but the publisher that establishes DRM. But to keep this information correct, Apple does use a proprietary DRM scheme. However the reader can use non-DRM products formatted in industry standard ePub or PDF formats.

Dale
As Dale points out, the DRM on most epub sites is the industry standard Adobe Digital Editions DRM. Barnes & Noble is the exception: they are using a DRM picked up from the old Palm eReader. I read recently that as of the latest preview for Adobe Digital Editions, B&N's DRM has been added to the standard. The preview should be able to open NookBooks, but doesn't currently support side loading to a device from ADE. This will still require updates to the SDK version used in the readers' firmwares to support the new standard, though. Hopefully this will happen and then almost all readers will be able to buy from any store, except Amazon and Kindle.

Amazon recently sent me a survey about MP3s, ebooks, apps, etc. I assume it was research for the successor to the Kindle Fire... I suggested that they sell epubs... I would buy from them for my Sony Reader if they did.
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Old 08-25-2012, 03:43 PM   #28
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ePub is an industry standard because everyone but (Apple is iffy) Amazon supports ePub. When you look at sales world wide, ePub sells more then Amazon's formats.
The Kindle format met industry standard back when Mobi was originally created. Arguably it still meets that standard. And I think it's just as standards compliant now as anything else on the market.

There are at least half a dozen variations on the epub format, most of which are mutually incompatible. And then there's the DRM issue, which causes even more comparability problems.

Given that you cannot read an iBooks Epub on the Nook, I don't see where anyone has reason to hold Kindle incompatibility against Amazon.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:38 PM   #29
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ePub is an industry standard because everyone but (Apple is iffy) Amazon supports ePub. When you look at sales world wide, ePub sells more then Amazon's formats.
Cite?
Given that 80% of the e-book market is American, and that the next largest market is the UK (where the Kindle is more dominant than it is in the US), I'm not sure that this is correct.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:48 PM   #30
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Given that you cannot read an iBooks Epub on the Nook, I don't see where anyone has reason to hold Kindle incompatibility against Amazon.
We hold iBooks incompatibility against Apple. So yes,we can hold Amazon's incompatibility with the industry standard ePub. ePub is the standard world wide. There are more people reading ePub then reading Amazon's eBooks.
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