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Old 08-25-2012, 06:31 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by DrNefario View Post
Bujold is probably Baen's best writer. People can be wrong, sometimes.
And it should always be pointed out when they're clearly wrong.
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Old 08-25-2012, 08:33 PM   #77
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Well, yes, if it was a mistake to release the CD under those terms, then it certainly wasn't fifthimperium's mistake.

There's no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, though. Bujold is probably Baen's best writer. People can be wrong, sometimes.
This.

And I think people are more likely to be wrong when they are stressed out by seeing their life's work available on the internet for free...
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:13 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Andrew H. View Post
This.

And I think people are more likely to be wrong when they are stressed out by seeing their life's work available on the internet for free...
Or just plain stressed out.
Times are tough all over...
There's no telling what Bujold's situation is.
For that matter, since MEMORY isn't on the CD, she might have noticed a big discrepancy in ebook sales for it versus the other titles on the CD.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:21 PM   #79
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As I recall, the person responsible for putting together the CD got sick during the process, and Memory was inadvertently left off.

Lots of people (like me) immediately went out to buy Memory so as to have the complete set, which accounted for the spike in sales of memory.

A lot of people (like me) will argue that Memory is the best book in the series.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:26 PM   #80
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And back then when people asked about why especially memory wasn't included the answer was that it has been overlooked because it wasn't part of the omnibus editions.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:29 PM   #81
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A lot of people (like me) will argue that Memory is the best book in the series.
A defensible position.
It is certainly a pivotal title in the series.
(Although I personally find KOMAR and A CIVIL CAMPAIGN more enjoyable and CETAGANDA more intriguing. )
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:53 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
A defensible position.
It is certainly a pivotal title in the series.
(Although I personally find KOMAR and A CIVIL CAMPAIGN more enjoyable and CETAGANDA more intriguing. )

Whereas my favorite is MIRROR DANCE, but MEMORY is definitely second and A CIVIL CAMPAIGN third.
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Old 08-26-2012, 07:59 AM   #83
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And I think people are more likely to be wrong when they are stressed out by seeing their life's work available on the internet for free...
Even if they knew their life's work had been available for free on the internet all along? Again, changing your mind about wanting your life's work to be available on the internet for free is perfectly fine. Misrepresenting the facts about why/where/how your life's work came to be available on the internet for free is not fine—even if you were stressed.

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Old 08-26-2012, 11:28 AM   #84
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Y'all seem to be absolving the large company here.

I like Baen, but they made a mistake too. They thought they had the power to do this, and that Bujold had given informed consent. Or that if she was missing something, she'd continue to do so in future. They were wrong, and there's now (a small amount of) adverse publicity floating around on the Web.

Then their response to the mistake (whoever(s) it is) is publicly interpreted as blaming their author. Maybe it's a refreshing contrast to modern PR, and there was no point (or some legal risk?) in saying more. But there's a valid discussion about free material, and they need to have it with their authors. A short "PS. Lessons will be learnt" might have been useful.

They could definitely have done without the aggro. I'm glad they're enlightened enough to let Bujold sell through Amazon while they're can't, but that's got to be causing some tension.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:43 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Dahak View Post
Last November I became aware of her New! Improved! opinion
Ouch.

The quote from Baen's Bar suggests she feels she "acquiesced" to having the CD available online, after the fact. Maybe she didn't read the small print in advance. Maybe she was working from an outdated mental model - home taping, as opposed to bittorrent.

It's not inconceivable someone could go from a politely acknowledging its existence, to deciding to try and take it down.
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Old 08-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by sourcejedi View Post
Y'all seem to be absolving the large company here.

I like Baen, but they made a mistake too. They thought they had the power to do this, and that Bujold had given informed consent. Or that if she was missing something, she'd continue to do so in future. They were wrong, and there's now (a small amount of) adverse publicity floating around on the Web.

Then their response to the mistake (whoever(s) it is) is publicly interpreted as blaming their author. Maybe it's a refreshing contrast to modern PR, and there was no point (or some legal risk?) in saying more. But there's a valid discussion about free material, and they need to have it with their authors. A short "PS. Lessons will be learnt" might have been useful.

They could definitely have done without the aggro. I'm glad they're enlightened enough to let Bujold sell through Amazon while they're can't, but that's got to be causing some tension.
I'm pretty sure Baen know's exactly what rights they do and do not have. In fact Baen is still distributing the CD ISO to anyone who has purchased Cryoburn or the Monthly Bundle that included it.

Still listed right on the main page of that CD image is, bolded the important part:

Quote:
You are about to start playing with a new Baen CD-ROM. Welcome! It includes not only the latest book in the series, Cryoburn, but the ENTIRE Vorkosigan Saga in several formats—and The Vorkosigan Companion—all of it beautifully unencrypted and unencumbered. But wait, there’s more! Also on this disk are interviews with author Lois McMaster Bujold, and various other interesting tidbits including a sample of the French language Miles Vorkosiagn graphic novel! More than fourteen novels for free—and with no stupid codes to work around. Think of that.

What’s the catch? This disk and its contents may be copied and shared, but NOT sold. All commercial rights are reserved. That’s it.
So if you want a copy of all of these books I am fully authorized by Baen to give them to you as long I don't try to sell them.
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Old 08-26-2012, 01:23 PM   #87
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More likely that's just similar sloppiness. Bujold didn't remind them about it, so they didn't do anything about it. Does she know about the ISOs on baenebooks.com?

I definitely think it's sloppy that the promo CDs are limited to the first hardcover printing, but there's no limit when it comes to the ebooks. It's probably fine in practice because most people don't know it's there, what it is, or have a clue how to use it.

I'm sure you're correct and Baen wouldn't want to act outside their rights. All I'm saying is that they acquiesced to Bujold's wishes. If they didn't feel they had the power to override her (even for non-legal reasons), you'd hope they'd try to avoid the embarrassment in advance.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:22 PM   #88
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You really need to read the thread to see why a few of us was tuned off by her attitude
Martin aka mjdb2 is an idiot. He's the one that pointed out to LMB about the CD being given away for free when all she was looking for was sample chapters.
Best to leave people in the dark if you have broader information and they don't ask the exact right question? Hmm.

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I'm not sure why this bothers me as much as it does.
Ironically, I thought something similar when the CD came out. I've bought all the books and really enjoyed them, and I couldn't help a slight emotional backlash. Free stuff! - I could have waited a bit and not paid! I don't have anything against it intellectually, but the emotion still had an influence. I'm sure other people have a similar bias towards free stuff, and once something's there, you don't like to see it go away. We are not as rational as we like to think... Or maybe that's just me.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:36 PM   #89
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The quote from Baen's Bar suggests she feels she "acquiesced" to having the CD available online, after the fact. Maybe she didn't read the small print in advance.
The quote was 'The CD-ROM was by explicit permission; the pirate site was by aquiesence.'.

Which I've always found rather fascinating.

If this had been Baen's second or third or fifth CD release, I might be able to accept that the author didn't understand what they were getting into, but this was the nineteenth or twentieth CD release - eight years after their first - with the exact same liberal distribution license.

There's a saying about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.
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Old 08-26-2012, 02:40 PM   #90
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You said that she mentioned your CD site after the Cryoburn CD went up. Did she also mention it before she agreed to the Cryoburn promotional CD?
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