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Old 08-21-2012, 09:26 PM   #31
Apache
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blossom View Post
After reading the thread I can see it's all about the money. Her books, she can do what she wants with them although I also find it weird that she called the Free Books an experiment.

I do not like how she attacked a perfectly legit site. That to me reminds of the whole LendInk ordeal. Authors screaming piracy without understanding what they've agreed to.

I think I will remove her books from my TBR. My friend absolutely loves her books. Has them all in paperback. I got mine from the CD. I haven't read them yet but I can not no longer read them. They are tainted.

If she would of just said I no longer want my books given away for free because ebooks are more popular now so the game has changed... but the way she acted toward BAEN over sample chapters and at others was distasteful and unprofessional.
I wonder if she would have acted that way if Jim Baen was still alive?
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Old 08-21-2012, 11:36 PM   #32
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I'm too lazy to register for Baen. Did Ms Bujold hint that she saw decreased sales due to the CD?
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:17 AM   #33
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I think there are several people here making a mountain out of a molehill. Sure, Ms. Bujold, when she realized that the CD was freely redistributable was not happy, as she put it:

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The Fifth Imperium is not "sample chapters". The Fifth Imperium is "giving away my life's work for free."

And I don't have another life in which to replace them.

I'm looking for an easily-accessible way to entice people to buy my books, not an easily-accessible way to relieve them of any need whatsoever to do so.
This is a sentiment shared by many authors, and one that I'm not sure is entirely wrong. Yes, she labeled The Fifth Imperium as a pirate site (from her perspective, they didn't get permission from her to redistribute). She asked that they stopped redistributing the CD, which they did, but she did not take it to the level of the authors shutting down the lending site by organizing a massive campaign amongst authors to misrepresent the site and shut it down by complaining to the ISP.

I suspect Ms. Bujold's contract allowed for Baen to distribute the CD for promotional purposes, and that she was unaware of the extent of the distribution allowed. That happens. I know at least one author has pulled books from the Baen Free Library too. IMHO, that's the author's right. I'm sure Baen would rather keep their authors happy and pull promotional material (when they can), even if the contract doesn't require them to.

Does she need to prove that having the freely available CD with 2/3rds of her work on it is cutting into her sales? No. It could even be in her economic best interest to leave it up at The Fifth Imperium and other places, but if she believes otherwise, we should respect her wishes.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:32 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
I'm too lazy to register for Baen. Did Ms Bujold hint that she saw decreased sales due to the CD?

You really need to read the thread. She claimed that she had no real way to come to the conclusion other then her book Memory which wasn't included in the CD sales went up.

As to those who think this is making mountain out of molehill please read the Sample Chapters thread. The little bit quoted in our thread isn't all she said about things.

You really need to read the thread to see why a few of us was tuned off by her attitude

Last edited by Blossom; 08-22-2012 at 12:57 AM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:57 AM   #35
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Oh, Blossom, don't let this ruckus keep you from reading Bujold, particularly since you already have the books. her writing is really wonderful.
I don't know. Did you read the thread? I mean I can understand some of her perspective. It's just I am Pro Non-DRM and all for promoting and protecting publishers who go that route. I felt she was discussing a matter that should've been between her and her publisher instead of taking public. It was a tasteless thing to do and put BAEN in a bad light.

I'm more than willing to buy the book and get the books that way but I don't want to support an author who cries fowl as someone put it.

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I wonder if she would have acted that way if Jim Baen was still alive?
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I don't know....I do know the game has changed with ebooks being more popular than physical these days. So the free backlists promos may no longer work like Mr. Baen intended. Still I say this is something to take up with her publisher not her fans.

However I can say I have bought many books from authors who gave away free books as a promo. Amazon is always getting me to buy some self publisher back list titles because I got a few free. Just this last week I purchased several books that were next in the series from free books I've gotten the previous week.

Last edited by Blossom; 08-22-2012 at 07:14 PM. Reason: Dyslexic Mind at work!
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:23 AM   #36
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Ok. I registered and read the thread. Basically she says sales were flat for her previous titles and she's seen increased number of reviews excitedly directing people to the free CD on the 5th Imperium.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:42 AM   #37
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I grabbed a copy of the ISO from the Fifth Imperium and after reading the first book, promptly bought Memories so as to make sure I had the lot.

I was then going to buy some of the other books (would have ended up buying them all eventually), even though I've already grabbed them from ISO. I did this with Honor Harrington and now own the lot even though I got most of the books from the Fifth Imperium.

This is very dissapointing for me as I like to use those CD's as a "Try-before-you-buy". I've certainly found authors I wouldn't have otherwise. I think it is going to be a long time before I read the rest of her books now.

And calling the Fifth Imperium a pirate site sounds defamatory and possibly libelous, which make me even less inclined to read her books make payments for those free books now.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:16 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by bgalbrecht View Post
Yes, she labeled The Fifth Imperium as a pirate site (from her perspective, they didn't get permission from her to redistribute).
That's the only part I take issue with, to be frank. Being "unaware of the extent of the distribution allowed" is no one's fault but her own (or her agent's). There was no reason to lash out at the Fifth Imperium and call them a "pirate site" just because she was ignorant of the legalities. In an unsatisfactory situation where no party is legally in the wrong, the best course of action rarely involves being an ass about it. Figure it out ... work the problem ... get the result ... move on. But for god's sake forego the non-relevant braying.

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Old 08-22-2012, 07:44 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Ok. I registered and read the thread. Basically she says sales were flat for her previous titles and she's seen increased number of reviews excitedly directing people to the free CD on the 5th Imperium.
So did I. Interestingly I noticed Lois hadn't contributed to thread since Oct 2011, but the thread has continued on.

Some of her comments left a bad taste in my mouth. Everyone is entitled to an opinion but I honestly felt she was pointing fingers and firing bolts of lightening rather than sitting back and actually looking at what the free CDs were all about. Basically crying poor.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:18 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by ghostyjack View Post
I grabbed a copy of the ISO from the Fifth Imperium and after reading the first book, promptly bought Memories so as to make sure I had the lot.

I was then going to buy some of the other books (would have ended up buying them all eventually), even though I've already grabbed them from ISO. I did this with Honor Harrington and now own the lot even though I got most of the books from the Fifth Imperium.
That's just what I've done with Honor Harrington. Read most of them from the free library and fifth imperium, then bought a few more of his books for my TBR list.

There's no way I'd have ever read Webber on a whim and whilst I was surprised so much was available for free, its made me buy more of his books because I know I like his writing and he gave so much for free.

Quote:
This is very dissapointing for me as I like to use those CD's as a "Try-before-you-buy". I've certainly found authors I wouldn't have otherwise. I think it is going to be a long time before I read the rest of her books now.
I've no issue with her realising the sharing is far greater than she was perhaps expecting and not liking that. Also no problem with her asking for the CD to be removed. Whether she has a legal right to cancel an agreement after someone had bought the paperback and obtained the CD with the permission to share it, I've no idea, not a lawyer, but either way I think it's fair that the Fifth imperium honour the request.

What I take issue with, is calling the Fifth Imperium a pirate site. She or the publisher gave permission for what is been done to be done. Had she not equated the site with piracy and just asked for the CD to be removed, then I'd have seen it as just a failed experiment and fair enough. Saying it's a pirate site however really rubs me the wrong way.

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And calling the Fifth Imperium a pirate site sounds defamatory and possibly libelous, which make me even less inclined to read her books make payments for those free books now.
Agreed.

Whether it will change my mind on reading her books, perhaps. Plenty of authors still available on the free library and fifth imperium to read several books in a series and decide whether they're worth buying more of.

Last edited by JoeD; 08-22-2012 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:42 AM   #41
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Frankly, if I had to choose between the rest of Baen and Bujold, I'd choose Bujold.

I don't feel that fifthimperium were doing anything too wrong (although its own popularity seems to have worked against it), but I think it was kind of against the spirit of the CDs. The CDs were for owners of the hardback to evangelise to their friends, not to say "hey, everyone in the world, no need to pay for that stuff, get it free here." That's probably Baen's mistake, but then Bujold's CD could quite easily be good for Baen and bad for Bujold. It promotes other Baen books, not written by her.

Baen already have a try-before-you-buy system. It's called the Free Library. They do not offer the CDs for worldwide download there.

It sounds like Bujold was a bit strong (I haven't read the thread, yet - I'm about to), but fifthimperium seems to have respected her wishes and pulled the files. What's the problem?

It's worth mentioning that the CDs were up for 18 months or more. I imagine the sales situation has clarified in that time.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:53 AM   #42
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Were any of her older works in the free library at all? I have this vague recollection one or two were.

I was recommended to read Bujold's works way back in the mid 90's but read Civil Campaign on the way to Hawaii in 2001. Loved her books since. However that might change now.
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Old 08-22-2012, 09:10 AM   #43
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Baen already have a try-before-you-buy system. It's called the Free Library. They do not offer the CDs for worldwide download there.
.
Go to Baen Ebooks to the Printed Books With Cd link, there are four books in the Baen Free Library that let you download the cd iso.

Ms Bujold apparently owns the ebook rights to most of her back list as stand alone books, do a search for Amazon Kindle or B&N Nook books, you will find most of them. Baen has the rights to the Omnibus editions.

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Old 08-22-2012, 10:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by DrNefario
It sounds like Bujold was a bit strong (I haven't read the thread, yet - I'm about to), but fifthimperium seems to have respected her wishes and pulled the files. What's the problem?
The problem is she ignorantly cried pirate. Other than that, there are no problems that I can see. She should have checked her Funk & Wagnalls and handled the problem quietly. There was no need for the name-calling. She certainly wasn't drowning kittens or anything, but that still doesn't mean she gets a free pass on tactlessness.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:45 AM   #45
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The problem is she ignorantly cried pirate. Other than that, there are no problems that I can see. She should have checked her Funk & Wagnalls and handled the problem quietly. There was no need for the name-calling. She certainly wasn't drowning kittens or anything, but that still doesn't mean she gets a free pass on tactlessness.
So you all are discussing "some tactlessness" on her part from 9 months ago when she was concerned that her livelihood was threatened, and she subsequently requested (and was granted) that the promotional CDs get pulled from some websites, and publicly deciding to individually boycott her works.

Maybe we should open a thread of "authors who did something or said something I didn't like" so everyone can get in on the action of suggesting we not read specific authors because of something they said instead of whether their work is any good.
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