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Old 08-13-2012, 10:16 AM   #16
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What's to disagree with? I just provided a list of what we NEED (some of which may already be built in).
This is the reference:
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You also need to port device drivers for the various devices you plan to install, ...
It has been such a long time ago that you wrote it, that you evidently forgot you wrote about "non-trivial" actions.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #17
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This is the reference:

It has been such a long time ago that you wrote it, that you evidently forgot you wrote about "non-trivial" actions.
I was talking about devices that are not already built-in, such as keyboard/mouse/USB sound/USB webcam/etc.

There appears to be a built-in USB mass-storage gadget. By "porting" I meant borrowing from other sources such as freescale.com or other freescale-based devices such as the nook simple touch, or compiling from GPL source when necessary. Obviously we should use built-in stuff WHEN it is provided, but we need to locate it first and find out how to load it and use it.

For many people, just finding and reading the required documentation is non-trivial. If it WAS as trivial as you seem to be saying, it would have been done a long time ago. There were complications, which is WHY it has not been done yet. It is not "hard", but it is also not "trivial".

"Trivial" means just getting a USB host mode cable, plugging it in, and using it. Needing to "modprobe" a USB gadget and then to mount the device to use it is non-trivial for most people here. I was correct when I said it was "non-trivial".

Let's not divert this thread into an angry discussion about word definitions of "trivial" and "non-trivial" -- I used them correctly here.

Last edited by geekmaster; 08-13-2012 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:58 AM   #18
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And I used the word: "disagree" correctly also as a statement of fact.
The words you are playing games with now are subjective terms.

And I also disagree with your conclusion above about diverting this thread.

Allowing you to demonstrate to the casual reader what happens to anyone who writes:
"I disagree with geekmaster"
in a post is important for anyone using this forum to know and to expect.
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Old 08-13-2012, 10:58 AM   #19
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I just want to add in that there's also a bit naming confusion - not in this thread, but in general - about "OTG" with regard to USB.

On the consumer side it mostly means some device is capable to interact with other "OTG" devices, as e.g. a camera and a printer.

On the hardware folks side, OTG is often used as a hinter to a multi-mode capable USB interface - an interface that is capable of driving other USB devices in addition to being an USB client. While this case covers the "consumer side" I've mentioned before, it is often also used for USB interfaces that would work in full Host mode. This is probably true for the Kindle's USB port, too.

Another thing: The gadget device options in the Linux kernel are kind of a USB client side software stack. Thus the mentioned mass-storage module is an implementation of a USB mass storage client. For driving HDDs and USB flash memory, the "normal" usb mass storage driver of the Linux kernel should be sufficient. That one should be provided by a USB HCI abstraction providing driver specifically for the USB controller in the Freescale SoC, which would be the mentioned fsl-ehci driver. However, I think it is only recognizing one USB bus, and I think that would probably be the host-mode bus that's used for e.g. driving the 3G modem (at least on older Kindle models, that was the case). Something must be triggered to present the other USB interface as a Host, too, so the fsl-ehci driver could care for it.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:01 AM   #20
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That is one of the functions that the "Auto-Sense" I mentioned earlier would do if present.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:03 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by knc1 View Post
And I used the word: "disagree" correctly also as a statement of fact.
The words you are playing games with now are subjective terms.

And I also disagree with your conclusion above about diverting this thread.

Allowing you to demonstrate to the casual reader what happens to anyone who writes:
"I disagree with geekmaster"
in a post is important for anyone using this forum to know and to expect.
Oh, so you are in one of "those moods" again.

The "disagree with geekmaster" thing is almost always about word definitions (and claiming that I used them wrong, just like here). Needing to locate and read a manual is not trivial for many people. Typing the commands to load USB gadgets is not trivial for most people. In the case of the Nook Simple Touch, they had to write a program to toggle a bit on a GPIO port to make it work. That is not trivial for anybody (even you). This thread is not about you telling people they use words incorrectly. It is about what things we need (or might need) to get USB devices working on the kindles. Please provide useful information instead of being disagreeable and provocative with YOUR "word games". Thanks.

Last edited by geekmaster; 08-13-2012 at 12:02 PM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:04 AM   #22
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... so the fsl-ehci driver could care for it.
That made me feel all warm inside. ahhh...
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:14 AM   #23
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... I think it is only recognizing one USB bus, and I think that would probably be the host-mode bus that's used for e.g. driving the 3G modem (at least on older Kindle models, that was the case). Something must be triggered to present the other USB interface as a Host, too, so the fsl-ehci driver could care for it.
That seems to agree with what I found in an old MobileRead thread, where they mostly decided that the built-in USB gadget drivers were manipulating the INTERNAL USB instead of the external USB port. In which case things become even MORE "non-trivial", requiring solutions similar to what they used to get this stuff working on the Nook Simple Touch.

The "something must be triggered" is probably what the custom Nook Simple Touch program did to configure the external port for OTG. That is why I added that program to the (non-trivial) list of things that may be needed in my earlier post.

Last edited by geekmaster; 08-13-2012 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:19 AM   #24
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That is one of the functions that the "Auto-Sense" I mentioned earlier would do if present.
Yep, I think so. Part of that game, however, is a properly connected "ID" pin on the MicroUSB port. I've got a feeling this might not be the case (as the Kindle is a highly specialized PCB design, they will probably refrain to route a single connection through half the PCB that they won't likely use soon). I might be wrong here, but my experience is limited to very few tests with the K3.

Too bad that full USB host functionality still has a bad reputation with vendors of mobile handheld devices. Then, I can understand their motivation: It's basically a support nightmare, and the electrical connections involved may present unexpected behaviour for therefore unexpected usages (say, someone decides to connect his coffee mug heater with the kindle just because it is equipped with a "power cord" that resembles 1:1 a USB connection, but isn't likely to get approval from the USB consortium soon).
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:23 AM   #25
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coffee mug heater .. with the kindle ..a USB connection
That's all I read. Where do I plug it in?????? BBBBOOOOOMM!! Faaarck.

Who's this Hawhill guy? I must hunt him down for personally destroying my trivial and inexpensive device with his crazy lies about my USB!!!

Err. Yeah I see your point.

EDIT: I would like to point out that a coffee mug heater stands a far greater chance than other devices in the same family developers will get their drinks!

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Old 08-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #26
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If you can switch on host mode power out to the kindle USB port, you could go to the amazon store and buy a "USB Humping Dog" for your kindle:
http://www.amazon.com/THUMBS-UP-USB-.../dp/B000LA8ZBA


Of course, you would need to get a USB hub working on your kindle to do this:


And yes, porting the USB Missile Launcher software to the kindle would be "non-trivial".

Last edited by geekmaster; 08-13-2012 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:08 PM   #27
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Hello All,

So... what I'd really like to plug in is a USB -> LAN adapter, so i can connect my K5 to a wired network. I work in a museum, where we shy away from using wifi in our exhibits for maintenance reasons... so its sort of copper or nothing..

Since i already have the usbnet hack installed and can SSH, what do you think the chances/pitfalls of me plugging in a LAN adapter with a powered hub & micro usb converter? Do you think it might 'just work'?

Obviously I should just try it out, but i'd be very grateful for your input!

Cheers

-h
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:19 PM   #28
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Hello All,

So... what I'd really like to plug in is a USB -> LAN adapter, so i can connect my K5 to a wired network. I work in a museum, where we shy away from using wifi in our exhibits for maintenance reasons... so its sort of copper or nothing..

Since i already have the usbnet hack installed and can SSH, what do you think the chances/pitfalls of me plugging in a LAN adapter with a powered hub & micro usb converter? Do you think it might 'just work'?

Obviously I should just try it out, but i'd be very grateful for your input!
-h
That's probably even more difficult than what the OP asked for. For your setup, you'd need loads of additional hardware, as well as OTG support on the Kindle *and* the correct driver for the LAN adapter. That's a lot of question marks and work, if it's feasible at all.

Just put a WiFi hotspot somewhere in a corner, set it up with WPA2-PSK (or even better, Enterprise WPA2), and configure it to only allow the Kindle's MAC address. Reasonably safe, zero maintenance after setting it up, and no hassle with the Kindle either. And you can even walk around with the Kindle
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Old 08-15-2012, 06:36 PM   #29
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That's probably even more difficult than what the OP asked for. For your setup, you'd need loads of additional hardware, as well as OTG support on the Kindle *and* the correct driver for the LAN adapter. That's a lot of question marks and work, if it's feasible at all.

Just put a WiFi hotspot somewhere in a corner, set it up with WPA2-PSK (or even better, Enterprise WPA2), and configure it to only allow the Kindle's MAC address. Reasonably safe, zero maintenance after setting it up, and no hassle with the Kindle either. And you can even walk around with the Kindle
If he must abide by a "no wireless" rule, then USBnet is currently the only way to go. Otherwise you need to find a USB LAN adapter that has ARM linux support with a loadable kernel module compatible with the kindle linux kernel (or a custom linux kernel). USBnet is a LOT easier, and already works.
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Old 08-15-2012, 08:49 PM   #30
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Here is the USB host mode switcher for the Nook. We might need something similar for the kindle:
https://github.com/verygreen/Nook-Co...usbswitch.java


This shows how to control it with echo commands. We may be able to do something similar too:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/show....php?t=1457971
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