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Old 08-12-2012, 08:29 PM   #16
cfrizz
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Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
I suspect that it might be considered illegal, but only a civil offence, not a criminal one.

i.e. The copyright owner could sue you if they found out and thought it worth doing, but the police wouldn't be interested.

However! I am not a lawyer! For real legal advice you'd need to ask (& pay) a lawyer.
Wait a minute aren't there companies out there right now that are making pdfs of our old books for a fee or have they been shut down? The paper book gets destroyed but you have a pdf to put on your ereader or convert it to word doc to print off if you want.

So long as that pdf remains in your custody, I don't see a problem with it.
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Old 08-12-2012, 10:46 PM   #17
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Wait a minute aren't there companies out there right now that are making pdfs of our old books for a fee or have they been shut down? The paper book gets destroyed but you have a pdf to put on your ereader or convert it to word doc to print off if you want.

So long as that pdf remains in your custody, I don't see a problem with it.
Me either. Though the original post was asking if it was ethical to copy a library book, if the means of copying affects the ethics of making the copy, and if it is then ethical to upload the copy to "the network" (the OP's way of saying "the internet"). To which my answers would be the same as pdurrant's.
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:14 PM   #18
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Smells a little like insider trading on the part of the publisher, right? After all, they could've easily done another printing and made a lot more money, albeit shooting the bottom out from under the scalpers. But for some reason they didn't, much to the collective rage of the fanbase.
Not necessarily.

The second print run might not have been as profitable for them, or the entire endeavor wasn't in their interest/financial goals. Latter was the case for Games Workshop's publishing and gaming imprint; company got scrapped despite their books selling out on the pre-order level.

And if the scenario you describe was Wizards of the Coast, their eBooks did get pirated...
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Old 08-12-2012, 11:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by charlesatan View Post
The second print run might not have been as profitable for them, or the entire endeavor wasn't in their interest/financial goals. Latter was the case for Games Workshop's publishing and gaming imprint; company got scrapped despite their books selling out on the pre-order level.
It was WotC, but there was enough demand they could've sold twice the paper copies of that book that they did. They had to do bigger runs of all the later sourcebooks because of the high demand.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:02 AM   #20
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One of the students in my Mandarin class found a book in the library which she thought was useful for the study of the language. Research turned up that:
1. the book was out of print (originally printed in 1974)
2. there were no plans for a new print run
3. there was no second-hand market (ie nothing available at that time)
4. the author was still alive.

My friend contacted the author to check on point 2, and when told that such was the case asked if we could photocopy the book. She received permission, and photocopied the entire library book, and made it available to her fellow students.

I don't see anything in that which offends my sense of ethics, and as to the legality of it, if it's ethical, I'll do it irrespective of the legality. (Some laws are extremely offensive from an ethical point of view.) We were all prepared to send a sensible sum of money to the author, which he did not want us to do.

Now, what's the view of the panel on this?

Does it change the situation for anyone if I tell you that the class consisted of four people and only two were interested in a copy?

And Tommy Persson, this was in Sweden after 2005!
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:29 AM   #21
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Copying a book with the permission of the copyright holder, as you did, is obviously fine. That's what "copyright" is all about - the right to make copies. In this case, you were granted that right.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:51 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Copying a book with the permission of the copyright holder, as you did, is obviously fine. That's what "copyright" is all about - the right to make copies. In this case, you were granted that right.
It is not clear that the author had the right to give permission. Maybe it was the publisher that should have been asked.
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Old 08-13-2012, 04:55 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by James_Wilde View Post
One of the students in my Mandarin class found a book in the library which she thought was useful for the study of the language. Research turned up that:
1. the book was out of print (originally printed in 1974)
2. there were no plans for a new print run
3. there was no second-hand market (ie nothing available at that time)
4. the author was still alive.

My friend contacted the author to check on point 2, and when told that such was the case asked if we could photocopy the book. She received permission, and photocopied the entire library book, and made it available to her fellow students.

I don't see anything in that which offends my sense of ethics, and as to the legality of it, if it's ethical, I'll do it irrespective of the legality. (Some laws are extremely offensive from an ethical point of view.) We were all prepared to send a sensible sum of money to the author, which he did not want us to do.

Now, what's the view of the panel on this?

Does it change the situation for anyone if I tell you that the class consisted of four people and only two were interested in a copy?

And Tommy Persson, this was in Sweden after 2005!
I think actually that the law was changed to cover cases were students copied books instead of buying them (the prices were so absurd so it was cheaper to copy a book). So the law was really not intended for just doing one copy or for the case you describe. So I think this is a case were the law cover to much and you cannot use it as a guidance to what is ethical. Also in cases were laws changes it should be an indication that it is not obvious what is ethically correct so maybe such a question is meaningless in cases were laws change often or were different countries have different laws.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:11 AM   #24
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I dont see this has being illegal because i own the physical book, which would have to be destroyed to do the transfer and the fact the digital copy would only ever be read by me.
Are you really sure of this?

I understand that for you personally it doesn't make a difference if you or someone else on your behalf copied and destroyed the physical book. But this company simply doesn't have a right to make and distribute digital copies of your or any physical book.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:38 AM   #25
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I'll ignore the legality part as that wasn't in the original question.

Ethically I personally feel it'd be ok to copy a library book that is out of print.

I doubt how you copy it really makes any difference.

I donot think it is ethical to distribute the copied book without the author's permission unless the copyright period has expired.

What was Giggleton banned for?
I never really read anything offensive, although some of his views are somewhat bizarre, I do like to read them and consider what he says.
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Old 08-13-2012, 06:42 AM   #26
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Are you really sure of this?

I understand that for you personally it doesn't make a difference if you or someone else on your behalf copied and destroyed the physical book. But this company simply doesn't have a right to make and distribute digital copies of your or any physical book.
My statement about me not having a problem with it was meant if i did the actual transfer myself. Even if this is not legal by law to me that is perfectly acceptable.

I would never pay anyone to do it unless i knew it was legal to do so, thats why i asked on here. i understand the laws differ from country to country and to be honest i'm not in that much of a hurry where i am going to pay a lawyer for clarification.

For now i will enjoy those books in paperback.
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Old 08-13-2012, 07:56 AM   #27
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I would also like to know why Giggleton has been banned. He is a raving loony, granted, but he is never offensive unlike several other posters I could mention who never get sanctioned. If people just ignored him then his drivel would become mere background noise.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:27 AM   #28
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My statement about me not having a problem with it was meant if i did the actual transfer myself. Even if this is not legal by law to me that is perfectly acceptable.
We must have been talking at cross purposes a little bit, I'm sorry!
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:32 AM   #29
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:37 AM   #30
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We must have been talking at cross purposes a little bit, I'm sorry!
It's ok, although i'm an avid reader, i'm not much of a writer and i know my grammar lets me down at times, i should have been clearer in my first post.
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