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Old 07-24-2012, 08:10 PM   #31
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Hello,

I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused in this regard.

I understand your concern regarding the report on MobileRead.com.

We didn't change any policy and we don't have any comments on other websites.

However there is no need to concern, your wireless connection is free and included with your Kindle purchase. There's no confusing service plans, no contracts or commitments, and no monthly fees.

Shopping and downloading from the Kindle Store is free. So is accessing your Archived Items on Amazon.com and Kindle's Basic Web that allows you to browse and search on the Internet.

Delivery of personal documents via 3G carries a charge of $0.15 per megabyte of content you submit for conversion.

If you need any further assistance, you can always write back by visiting this link and state the problem or request a call from us, we will help you right away.

http://amzn.to/XXXXX

We appreciate your understanding and we look forward to seeing you again

Thank you for your inquiry.
After reading more about this 50meg limit around the net it seems the limit is only for outside the US.

I don't think I'm entitled to unlimited 3g for paying my extra $50 but I also do not appreciate being penalized because of a smacktards on the internet. Want to punish someone? Punish them, turn off the 3g access for those units using the hack to share the 3g connection.
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Old 07-24-2012, 08:21 PM   #32
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If you disable images, which I do, I wonder how much g-mailing and twp.com reading it is going to take to get to 50 MB. I'm thinking it is an awful lot. Does anyone know how likely it is to get to the 50 MB if you stick to text based web sites?
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Web browsing was only ever described as an "experimental" service which could be withdrawn at any time. It appears on the menu under "Experimental", does it not?
There's an important distinction to be made here. The browser is listed as experimental, and at least to me, "experimental" means that the browser itself may not work as expected (rendering web pages incorrectly/slowly/poorly, etc, similar to a beta). It's a completely separate feature from unlimited 3G. Also, even if the "experimental" tag was applied specifically to the browsing, nowhere does it say that any sort of limit would be imposed on the browsing or that it was subject to being taken away.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:38 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by geoffwood View Post
I really struggle to understand how anybody can believe that paying a onetime $50 upgrade to get a 3G ereader somehow entitles them to unlimited global data for life.
I'm not sure how it doesn't. Amazon never stated the restriction when it was sold, and while I can honestly say I'm not likely to hit a 50MB cap, it's still annoying to now have to worry about it. I didn't pay to get limited later on...
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:49 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
To my knowledge... no one was ever promised unlimited free 3G web browsing forever.
If I remember correctly, Amazon originally advertised something along the lines of "lifetime free 3G". The Kindle product pages don't currently mention "lifetime" (I'm sure they've changed the language), but if you do a Google search for "Kindle lifetime 3G", you'll get plenty of references to lifetime 3G that I'm sure didn't come out of nowhere.

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Originally Posted by geoffwood View Post
I don't recall Amazon ever saying the 3G was intended to allow you to Pay your bills and check email while travelling half way round the world, or at the nearest coffee shop.
Are you going to wait for your home internet provider to tell you what websites you can visit before you'll visit them? They never stated any intent for the free global 3G, meaning you're free to visit any website anywhere that you get service. If they wanted to lock things down, they were free to do so just like they do with the Kindle Touch 3G, which explicitly states and restricts you to what you can do over 3G. The Kindle Keyboard never had such restrictions.

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Originally Posted by PharaohsVizier View Post
I'm not sure how it doesn't. Amazon never stated the restriction when it was sold, and while I can honestly say I'm not likely to hit a 50MB cap, it's still annoying to now have to worry about it. I didn't pay to get limited later on...
Agreed. Do I think that unlimited lifetime global 3G for a one-time $50 fee is incredibly generous? I certainly do. But this doesn't mean that it's within Amazon's rights to restrict this advertised feature after I've paid for it. I pretty much never use the 3G but I paid extra for the feature because I figured that it might be useful at some point. I used it while traveling abroad to check my email, but this 50MB per month restriction is dismally low.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by AZImmortal View Post
But this doesn't mean that it's within Amazon's rights to restrict this advertised feature after I've paid for it.
Sure it does. Under the heading of "Use of Wireless Connectivity" the Kindle licence agreement clearly states:

Quote:
The fees and terms for such services are located in the Kindle Store and may change from time to time.
(emphasis mine). That's what they've done - changed.

Quote:
I pretty much never use the 3G but I paid extra for the feature because I figured that it might be useful at some point. I used it while traveling abroad to check my email, but this 50MB per month restriction is dismally low.
The licence agreement also tells you what you should do if you have a dispute with Amazon about their terms (under "Disputes"):

http://www.amazon.com/gp/help/custom...deId=200506200
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:50 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Sure it does. Under the heading of "Use of Wireless Connectivity" the Kindle licence agreement clearly states:



(emphasis mine). That's what they've done - changed.
You've left out the important parts from the license agreement.

Quote:
Use of Wireless Connectivity. Your Kindle uses wireless connectivity to allow you to shop for and download Digital Content from the Kindle Store. In general, we do not charge you for this use of wireless connectivity. Your Kindle may use wireless connectivity to make other services available to you for which we may charge you a fee, such as personal file download and subscriptions when you are located in another country. The fees and terms for such services are located in the Kindle Store and may change from time to time. If your Kindle functions with third party services, such as WI-FI access points, a third party may charge you fees for the use of those services.
They're not referring to 3G browsing, but rather to fee-based services over 3G.

Last edited by AZImmortal; 07-25-2012 at 03:55 AM.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:08 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by AZImmortal View Post
You've left out the important parts from the license agreement.



They're not referring to 3G browsing, but rather to fee-based services over 3G.
And now you are desperately trying to read things in the agreement that aren't there.

Quote:
Use of Wireless Connectivity. Your Kindle uses wireless connectivity to allow you to shop for and download Digital Content from the Kindle Store. In general, we do not charge you for this use of wireless connectivity. Your Kindle may use wireless connectivity to make other services available to you for which we may charge you a fee, such as personal file download and subscriptions when you are located in another country.
What do they say? Access to the Kindle store is generally free (note: "generally". Even this is a weaker term than "forever" or "guaranteed to be").

Then they say that they may charge you for services other than access to the Kindle store, and give examples. These examples aren't exhaustive either, and could be extended with, for instance, "access to any web site on the www".
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:51 AM   #39
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Regardless of anyone´s opinion of what is or is not allowed via the agreement.

I bought a device that had one level of service, now I have one that provides another.

Bait and switch. Simple.

Yes I would happily flay alive those who tethered their devices so foolishly as to now reduce (those of) us (unfortunate enough to now be in the ¨PUNISHMENT ZONE¨) to fifty mb of data.

But since public floggings are a bit out of fashion, that´s not likely to happen; I will simply have to say MEH to those fortunate to be inside the US saying ¨But it´s not so bad, probably¨

I buy something, I expect it to be what I bought. T+C´s be damned.

; )

Last edited by twobob; 07-25-2012 at 05:54 AM. Reason: added clarity, passion and a pinch of humour
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:09 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by twobob View Post

Bait and switch. Simple.

I buy something, I expect it to be what I bought. T+C´s be damned.
That's not Bait and Switch, but it is BS.

Where was the "bait"? Where did Amazon ever "bait" you with a promised higher level of service? Where did they promise Free unlimited global data for life?

The service changed, but to a reasonable level that is fully inline with their intent, and with reasonable expectations, at the time of the original sale. It's an eReader, you can buy books on it, you can check Google and Wikipedia on it. You can still do all of that, anywhere in the world.

The sense of entitlement that people have is just amazing. You paid next to nothing for the service, but expect the world, literally, in return.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:19 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by geoffwood View Post
That's not Bait and Switch, but it is BS.

Where was the "bait"? Where did Amazon ever "bait" you with a promised higher level of service? Where did they promise Free unlimited global data for life?

The service changed, but to a reasonable level that is fully inline with their intent, and with reasonable expectations, at the time of the original sale. It's an eReader, you can buy books on it, you can check Google and Wikipedia on it. You can still do all of that, anywhere in the world.

The sense of entitlement that people have is just amazing. You paid next to nothing for the service, but expect the world, literally, in return.

Frankly put, punish those who take the mikey, someone shifts 5Gb? send them a mail and stick them on data rations for a year.

Someone goes to 51Mb because they are stuck somewhere and the kindle is a lifeline, don´t punish them for the 5Gb guys/girls misdeeds.

Also. As I understand it only the Wiki and Amazon store work for me outside the UK.
Which again was a ¨surprise¨, but meh.

Anyways, if I am honest, I don´t think 50Mb is the worst thing in the world.
It is a tough break to be presented with an absolute limit where there was none. switch. I bought the device with unlimited 3G - as advertised in the UK, bait.

For the record: This was just the only heated debate on here this morning.
I am fully aware that flogging this horse of deadness has no impact other than to give me something to flap my fingers about while I wake up grumpily with tea, blumming trolling lurkers, I should go do something more constructive

Last edited by twobob; 07-25-2012 at 06:29 AM. Reason: added sexual equality and roaming details
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:41 AM   #42
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I should go do something more constructive
Where's the fun in that?
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:53 AM   #43
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Amazon originally advertised something along the lines of "lifetime free 3G".
Put quite simply ... no they didn't.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:59 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by AZImmortal View Post
If I remember correctly, Amazon originally advertised something along the lines of "lifetime free 3G".
My memory is otherwise.

If I'm mistaken -- and it has happened -- you can find the old Kindle marketing web pages at waybackmachine.org, and prove me wrong.

The original Kindle free internet has been delivered, in the US, for 4 1/2 years. That a long time in the tech world.

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Originally Posted by kacir View Post
You won't be able to download files, listen to music, watch video, have access to flash ... .
Nothing new. eInk Kindles are for reading, listening to side-loaded MP3's, and the lightest data entry; the browser has never offered those features.

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Originally Posted by kacir View Post
Plus the use of the browser is quite awkward so I do not think many people would generate substantial traffic.
I don't find it awkward once set up with bookmarks appropriate to it.

A suspicious person could say that by using the word "experimental," and pre-loading bookmarks unsuited to the device, Amazon has always been discouraging browser use. But I don't know where they broke a promise.
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Old 07-25-2012, 07:08 AM   #45
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Even if they did promise "lifetime free 3G", how have they broken that promise? It is still 3G and it is still free.
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