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Old 07-11-2008, 02:45 PM   #16
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Yes, I totally agree. That makes perfect sense. Although some people re-seal stuff.

BOb
Yep. This is why you see more companies using seals on the box openings and/or internal component packaging in addition to shrink wrap. They use seals that you can't remove without leaving a mark.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:52 PM   #17
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Have you not read stories about people buying hard drives, iPods, etc and opening the box to find it has nothing in it, or a rock or brick? This is why these laws exist.

BOb
"These laws" ?? There is no law that I know of that prevents a company from taking back a product, inspecting it, making certain that it is in saleable condition, and repackaging it and selling it as new.

There is a law against purchasing a product, and returning it to the store with a brick in the box. That is called fraud, and it is very illegal. If a store takes a return, they generally inspect the item (if they are smart) to make certain the items is

(1.) All there, including manuals and all parts; and
(2.) In working and saleable condition.

and that the customer has not put a brick in the box and tried to defraud the company.

As to "have I heard stories" of people getting empty boxes or bricks in the box. Sure. I purchased a program, got it home and found the box had a manual and no CD Rom. The store refused to take the product back because I had opened the box. However, I called the software company, explained the situation to them, and they sent me a free CD Rom.

If you have doubts about the merchandise you purchase at any company where you have had an experience like that, you are allowed to demand that they open and inspect it in the store before you take it.

I have certainly not heard any stories about bricks in boxes coming from Amazon, and if I were to be sold a Kindle in less than perfect condition (cosmetic and operation), I would silmply return it.
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Old 07-11-2008, 02:57 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by daffy4u View Post
Some people re-seal stuff really well. I had and issue with it earlier this week. I purchased a cable that allows me to play an iPod through my car stereo (my cassette drive is acting up on my 2003 Corolla). The package was sealed and looked in good shape. Before I left the parking, I decided to try it out.

First thing I noticed were fingerprints on the instruction manual. Then when I removed the cling film from the button panel, it was all scratched up. The cable on one side of the panel was being pulled away from the panel and it just didn't work. I walked right back into the store, pointed everything out and they let me get another package (which had more stuff in it than the one I had before).

Glad I didn't have to drive all the way back for the return.

Yup .... some people do try to defraud stores, and some stores do not inspect items before they put them up for resale.

If I were you, I would demand that they open and inspect the item before you even take it out of the store. I do that all the time with stores in which I have less than 100% faith.

I do have that kind of faith in Amazon ... the 100% type. They have never sent me anything less than a good looking and working product. I have had problems with items sent from TigerDirect, so I try to avoid using them if at all possible. Although, they are not directly responsible for the condition of products sent to them by their suppliers. Amazon is with respect to the Kindle, so I expect the best from them .... and so far, I have gotten it.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by RickyMaveety View Post
"These laws" ?? There is no law that I know of that prevents a company from taking back a product, inspecting it, making certain that it is in saleable condition, and repackaging it and selling it as new.
That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am pretty sure I have read about consumer protection laws that do not allow you to sell something as new if it has been in a customers hands. I just can't find a reference to them right now.

BOb
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:25 PM   #20
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That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I am pretty sure I have read about consumer protection laws that do not allow you to sell something as new if it has been in a customers hands. I just can't find a reference to them right now.

BOb
Nope .... I haven't. It's not my field of law ... so maybe they're out there somewhere, but you'd have to give me a citation to prove it to me.

I'll give you an example of why such a law would have to be very specific. You walk into a store, you try on an article of clothing. You decide you will not buy it .... it goes back on the rack for someone else to try on. A single outfit might be worn by 100 customers ... and still sold as new.

Now ... if by the word "something" you mean only somethings that are sold in boxes, the store may (or may not) decide to offer an "open box" discount. Those that do offer an open box discount (usually about 10%) are often the stores that charge the person returning the item about 15% as a "restocking fee." So, those stores do not lose a penny in offering an open box discount.

However, as long as the store (and/or the manufacturer) provides a standard warranty from the date of purchase .... as far as I know, there is nothing wrong with them selling an item after adequate inspection.

However .... if you want to take the time to give me a legal citation, preferably one from the US Federal Codes, I would love to see it.
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:28 PM   #21
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However .... if you want to take the time to give me a legal citation, preferably one from the US Federal Codes, I would love to see it.
Maybe I'll send the question to NowNow and see what they say. Just don't have my Kindle with me right now.

BOb
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Old 07-11-2008, 03:39 PM   #22
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Maybe I'll send the question to NowNow and see what they say. Just don't have my Kindle with me right now.

BOb
Sounds like a plan. I would be interesting to see how quick they are with Federal citations. I mean that seriously ....
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Old 07-12-2008, 10:48 AM   #23
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Sounds like a plan. I would be interesting to see how quick they are with Federal citations. I mean that seriously ....
OK... so I submitted this question to NowNow:

Are there any consumer protection laws in the US that prohibit a retailer from selling a returned product as new? If so can you also cite the federal regulation the enumerates these laws?

I got three responses. Basically they all concur that to sell returned goods as new is fraud. The first two responses had no cites or even a source specified. The third response did give a source of https://www.gencomarketplace.com/sws...nk=MakingMoney however no CFR cites were forth coming.

BOb
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:35 PM   #24
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OK... so I submitted this question to NowNow:

Are there any consumer protection laws in the US that prohibit a retailer from selling a returned product as new? If so can you also cite the federal regulation the enumerates these laws?

I got three responses. Basically they all concur that to sell returned goods as new is fraud. The first two responses had no cites or even a source specified. The third response did give a source of https://www.gencomarketplace.com/sws...nk=MakingMoney however no CFR cites were forth coming.

BOb
Well, that tells me that they are no more expert an opinion than you would get from a man on the street. I'm certain if you polled a bunch of people, who knew nothing about the law, about any facet of the law, you would get a lot of opinions that didn't actually reflect the law.

If they can't provide any USC or CFR citations, then there is no proof to the assertion. If you buy a car and decide to return it that same day ... do you think the car dealer sells it as "used" .... what about a book store that sells you a hard backed book, and you bring it back an hour later after changing your mind?? Do you really think they don't stick it back on the shelf??

I'll read whatever source that was cited, but you are going to have to come up with something concrete before you convince me. Not just some vague opinion of someone with no legal credentials.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:41 PM   #25
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OK .... read it .... it refers to "distressed inventory." That, to my mind means inventory that is no longer in saleable condition.

Also, the broad statement that retailers are "unable" to put inventory back on the shelf would also seem to apply to unopened boxes, and I know for a fact that those can be resold.

So, I think whoever wrote the article is making sweeping statements about retail sales in general, and is not supporting those statements with any citations. That makes me suspect of the source entirely.

With all due respect to the folks at NowNow .... I think they ought to be able to give some code citations quite easily if what they were saying was in fact the case.
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Old 07-12-2008, 12:46 PM   #26
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With all due respect to the folks at NowNow .... I think they ought to be able to give some code citations quite easily if what they were saying was in fact the case.
Yea... I don't think NowNow is really that level of service. I doubt they have access to Lexus/Nexus searches.

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Old 07-12-2008, 01:02 PM   #27
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If you buy a car and decide to return it that same day ... do you think the car dealer sells it as "used" ....
Depends on the states definition of title, To my understanding a car has to be sold as used if it has been titled. Kind of tough to do same day but still

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Old 07-12-2008, 01:03 PM   #28
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Yea... I don't think NowNow is really that level of service. I doubt they have access to Lexus/Nexus searches.

BOb
They don't need them. The entire USC and CFR are available for free online.

I just think they aren't the type of service that is going to put that time into getting an answer to that level of detail. And, as odd at it seems, there is the possibility that they are prohibited from providing legal references since that could be perceived as the practice of law.

I know that seems odd .... but even at the law library, the librarians cannot provide anything that could be even remotely termed "legal advice" ... same with the clerks at the court.

If I get the time (which is really doubtful at this point .... because my list of crap to do in real life is getting longer as I write this ....) I will do some research into the point.
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