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Old 06-27-2012, 10:09 PM   #91
user_none
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer
The original source could possibly be utf-16, but at the point the entity substitution happens, Sigil seems to have already homogenized everything to utf-8 (that's an assumption based on the presence of the "QString::fromUtf8" function). Still... it could pose a problem if Sigil does (or chooses to in the future) preserve the underlying utf-8/16-ness of a document. Right now, though, it seems that portion of Sigil's code is confidently expecting utf-8. *shrugs*
You're misunderstanding how the QString::fromUtf8 function works. Internally a QString is utf16. ::fromUtf8 takes a utf8 string and converts it into a utf16 string (all QStrings are utf16). Very little assumes or requires utf8 in regard to the text. PCRE included in 0.5.x was utf8 only. With 0.6.0 PCRE has added support for utf16 and Sigil is using it. Spell check does use uft8 but spell check is not required and does not prevent a utf16 document to be loaded or saved.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serpentine
A few of us spoke up against the idea — but there was a lot of "Herpa derp I once edited something... so make the BV nice! XD," while actual users voiced that throwing web-components into something, to replace native ones was a bad idea and would require so many affordances to be forced into being, for little gain at the end of the day.
Try listening. I've told you this before. The majority of the old component was written in Javascript. The old component loads and uses JQuery for a number of different operations. Look at all of the [url=http://code.google.com/p/sigil/source/browse/?name=0.5.3#git%2Fsrc%2FSigil%2FResource_Files%2Fj avascript]helpers[/ur] that were used. This is in addition to all of the Javacript sprinkled throughout the BV source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ondrejandrej
Hi, I installed the version 0.5.902 under Linux and realized, that it sucks. How do I remove it? There are no uninstallation instructions neither in enclosed text files nor in wiki.
Sigil is no longer provided as a binary package. If you installed from a binary package ask the author of that package. If you built from source. Learn about building from source because it includes the same uninstaller as pretty much every other source package. None.

---

Syncing:

Syncing the cursor between views isn't supported. The cursor should remember its position within the view.

BookView:

EPUB 3? Yes? The old BV doesn't support outputting HTML5. It actually doesn't even support outputting 100% valid XHTML. Tidy is used to turn the output into something that passes validation.

There is not good WYSIWYG editing component. I'm not willing to spend the time to write one from scratch as that would be the equivalent of creating something similar and even more complex than a browser. So either what's currently available can be used or no BV.

Personally I'd love to drop BV completely. It's the most frustrating piece of Sigil to work on. It doesn't work properly and it never has. It complicates the code base by a large amount. About 60% of the time spent working on every release is spent dealing with BV. That said, I don't think it's a good idea to drop BV from Sigil. A non-Sigil Sigil without BV would be a different story though.

Slotting the old BV back in is possible. It should only take an afternoon worth of work. I'll weigh the advantages of doing so. But don't think that putting the old BV back will solve every issue. For example, the old BV doesn't always produce output that will pass validation. It's actually easier to modify CKEditor's output than the old BV.

The point of the beta is to see what work, what doesn't, what people don't like and what people like. Funny thing about doing a beta is about 25% of the issues reported aren't new. They've been around for quite some time.

The hardest part of developing software is what one person requests as functionality and loves another person hates. So we end up with different parties asking for different things that don't work well together. There are only a few outcomes. One party isn't happy. Neither party is happy. Both parties are somewhat happy. It's pretty much impossible to make both parties completely happy.

At this point I'm thinking I have enough feedback to go back the drawing board for 0.6.0. Put some more work into it and try again at a later date. If something doesn't work there isn't anything wrong with trowing it out. The only drawback is with limited developers and limited resources it delays a new release.
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:50 PM   #92
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Sometimes in CV Replace is no longer an option (only Find)
Reloading (with a Save) the Book (and exact same page) and Replace is once again Available.

I have not pinned it down to any Solid events.
It has happened 3 times in the last few days
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Old 06-27-2012, 11:06 PM   #93
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If you're looking for moral support for dropping BV as an editor, I'm offering it.

A simple Display View of how it looks, without any ability to edit would be fine with me (assuming it can actually display things like embedded fonts, etc.)

It'd be nice if such a Display View was dockable/separable (for dual-screen use), and if it auto-refreshed -- although I understand that may be difficult with well-formedness checks. A manual refresh would be adequate.

I think you are indeed trying to develop "two, Two, TWO! apps in one!" One for people that get HTML and regex, and one for people who don't -- or don't want always to be bothered, at least.

I wonder if it's even possible to write a "word-processor for epubs" that let's you look under the hood and tinker... Not enough guarantee of regularity to let you be confident of what you're changing when you word-process, especially when importing from external sources.

To keep it elegant, it's one or the other (or both, separately.)

$0.02,
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:47 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capidamonte View Post
... A simple Display View of how it looks, without any ability to edit would be fine with me (assuming it can actually display things like embedded fonts, etc.)

It'd be nice if such a Display View was dockable/separable (for dual-screen use), and if it auto-refreshed -- although I understand that may be difficult with well-formedness checks. A manual refresh would be adequate...
Funny, that's exactly what I was thinking just before I read this post. I couldn't care less to actually edit in BV. The only thing I use BV for is to preview the changes I made in CV.... Does that indent look good enough, is that font size maybe too big, etc. etc. A simple preView rather than an editable BV would be great. Assuming that was easier than making BV an editable preview.

Quote:
Originally Posted by user_none
Syncing the cursor between views isn't supported. The cursor should remember its position within the view.
If only mine did remember where it was, currently my cursor jumps to the bottom of the CV screen when I switch from BV back to CV, pretty much everytime.
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Old 06-28-2012, 02:32 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_none View Post
Slotting the old BV back in is possible. It should only take an afternoon worth of work.
that gets my vote. even if you freeze it as-is & don't ever enhance it - one afternoons work for backward compatibility seems a good trade.
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:22 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capidamonte View Post
I wonder if it's even possible to write a "word-processor for epubs" that let's you look under the hood and tinker...
It's certainly POSSIBLE. Any decent website editor does it, and an epub is only a limited-function set of web pages!
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:42 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user_none View Post
You're misunderstanding how the QString::fromUtf8 function works. Internally a QString is utf16. ::fromUtf8 takes a utf8 string and converts it into a utf16 string (all QStrings are utf16). Very little assumes or requires utf8 in regard to the text. PCRE included in 0.5.x was utf8 only. With 0.6.0 PCRE has added support for utf16 and Sigil is using it. Spell check does use uft8 but spell check is not required and does not prevent a utf16 document to be loaded or saved.
Thanks for the clarification on QString::fromUtf8. But a built from scratch Sigil ePub does currently only contain utf-8 xhtml files, right? I know windows-1252 gets converted to utf-8 when you add/import... and I've never been able to get a utf-16 html file to add/import properly (in 0.5.3 or the 0.6 betas), so I figured it was a safe assumption that the code would only be encountering utf-8 at that point. But I guess that doesn't take into account non-Sigil built ePubs that may already contain utf-16 files, does it?

Last edited by DiapDealer; 06-28-2012 at 06:47 AM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:59 AM   #98
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The old book view had its own problems which were very annoying. Things got automatically highlighted, so when you pressed delete more text than you wanted disappeared. But syncing, such as it was, was nice.

Please do not drop book view. It allows me to see if my code editing has been successful or not without having to open up another program. Half the utility would be gone, since if all I wanted to do was edit code I could use tweak epub along with any good text editor. Being able to find odd characters or strange spacing is very worthwhile. PG Canada material has page numbers made invisible that cause odd spaces in the text. It is not easy to see this in code view, but it is very clear in book view. The effect of non-breaking spaces is more obvious in book view than in code view. It is hard to keep both BV and CV, but it is worthwhile.

The syncing issue may not be such a big thing if we could see the position remembered in book view. I usually work my way down a document, so I would generally move down both on the BV side and CV side pretty much together anyway.

Any chance the BV modules old and new could be modularized, so they could be selected at install time, without creating much more work and hair tearing? Maybe that would satisfy both camps.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:05 AM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post

The syncing issue may not be such a big thing if we could see the position remembered in book view. I usually work my way down a document, so I would generally move down both on the BV side and CV side pretty much together anyway.
In my (somewhat humble) opinion cursor sync is one of the best parts of Sigil. No matter what view I'm in, if I see something I don't like, I can merely position my cursor and efficiently move between views as required.

I worry that last position remembered will require too much searching for the cursor. It may not be a problem on first edit, but on second proof changes may be far and few between.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:54 AM   #100
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I'd prefer syncing myself, but user_none has made it clear he doesn't want to do it. I was just aiming for some middle ground that he could do without making it too much work. He does have a day job and I REALLY appreciate him bringing Sigil up to the level that he has. I am pretty sure MY mind could not stretch from payment processing software to epub creation software.

You have the displayed text which looks simple, then all the underlying code...where is the cursor, really? To which side of invisible text, or a change in style?
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:25 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmikel View Post
You have the displayed text which looks simple, then all the underlying code...where is the cursor, really? To which side of invisible text, or a change in style?
Doesn't really matter - as long as I can highlight a string of text and find the same string, with or without its adjacent code, highlighted in Code View.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:43 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exaltedwombat View Post
It's certainly POSSIBLE. Any decent website editor does it, and an epub is only a limited-function set of web pages!
No.

Imagine passing a website's code through three or four different web-editors, then opening the code-view and trying to parse what the heck everything was.

Never work. It's always a complex of spaghetti-code and overlaid styles. It's like what you get out of Calibre after a conversion.

It works, visually. That's it. Not readily parseable for elements, because it doesn't care. It's just trying to do something visual.

The point of proper editing of a book is to generate good classes and elements, divorcing style from content; the only way to do that is to get smart about minimizing what you use. If you allow it to be open-ended, you break easily Word-processing a book into shape, because the necessarily-limited set of elements and styling is exceeded and the app cannot cope -- it is impossible, short of machine-sentience for it to know what you intended.

Making an editor that displays what the code does, sure; that's self-evident. Making an editor that meets the needs of the ignorant and the wise is impossible -- all you'll ever get is kludges.

Now I'm up to $0.04.

Aloha,
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Old 06-29-2012, 06:34 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capidamonte View Post
If you're looking for moral support for dropping BV as an editor, I'm offering it.

A simple Display View of how it looks, without any ability to edit would be fine with me (assuming it can actually display things like embedded fonts, etc.)
In my case one example of a situation, where Book view is needed, is editing books in Czech language, where I often have to replace ASCII quotation marks with the proper Unicode quotes in Czech (example: „quoted text“). Many other languages use the same quotation marks. I use regular expressions to replace the opening ASCII quotation mark with a different character than the closing one. If I do it in Code view, the quotes in HTML tags are replaced as well (bad).

However, for this and other situations it would be enough to be able to exclude HTML tags in Search and Replace. Moreover Search and Replace in Book view isn't able to go through all files. I would be happy if there was one more checkbox "Exclude HTML tags" in Search and Replace dialog in Code view.

One more thing: I realized, that if I replace a hyphen with an en dash, the code – is inserted in the code view instead of unicode character "–", even if I enter "–" as the replacement text. That happens after clicking "Replace all". If I replace individually by clicking "Replace", the unicode character is inserted. I think it should be either one way or the other, not both. And I prefer inserting the unicode character (if I wanted to insert – I could enter it as replacement text).
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Old 06-29-2012, 09:57 AM   #104
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Title tag contents disappearing

A small bug I've found - the contents of the title tag sometimes goes awol leaving just the tags (<title></title>). It seems to happen in the active file when switching between BV & CV and back again, regardless of which source cleaning option is selected.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:56 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ondrejandrej View Post
...to replace ASCII quotation marks with the proper Unicode quotes in Czech (example: „quoted text“). Many other languages use the same quotation marks. I use regular expressions to replace the opening ASCII quotation mark with a different character than the closing one. If I do it in Code view, the quotes in HTML tags are replaced as well (bad)....
I do this when replacing straight quote marks with proper curly quotes:

FIND: >"
REPLACE: >“

Replaces all quote marks after any > which usually denotes the end of an HTML tag.

Next, replace all " in front of a capital letter:

FIND: "([A-Z])
REPLACE: “\1

That should take care of most if not all quotes that start a sentence.

I then go on to replace the ending quote of a sentence with curly quote mark.

FIND: "</
REPLACE: ”\1

then replace all quote marks after a period, comma, question mark, exclamation mark:

FIND: ([.,?!])"
REPLACE: .”

I usually do a step through to check to make sure I got all the marks:

FIND: “(.*?)”

I then do a final step through to see if there are any straglers, this WILL find " marks in HTML tags, but not all of them by skipping any that start with an equal sign (classes) or ending in > end of class:

FIND: ([^=])"([^>])

It's a bit of work but MUCH less than stepping through each " mark and judging if it should be replaced. As all but the last two can "Replace All"

Last edited by Danger; 06-29-2012 at 11:59 AM.
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