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Old 05-01-2012, 11:30 PM   #106
bill_mchale
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That there are people who hate the NYT I don't dispute. But the NYT wouldn't have such a national following if it was so widely hated as some suppose. The intensity of dislike can make things seem more widely disliked than they really are.
Actually, I don't think that is true. This is one of those occasions where both can be true. If the New York Times was not widely circulated, no one would really care about it. As it is, I think some see it as being the source of journalistic truth, and others see it as being the epitome of an elitist liberal newspaper (True or not).

--
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Old 05-01-2012, 11:44 PM   #107
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I stopped reading the Times when they started charging. I prefer to pay for the Financial Times. After I pay off my IPad, I will get the Economist.
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Old 05-02-2012, 08:45 AM   #108
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The Economist web site offers a fair amount of free content and up to 5 free paywalled articles a week. I've been meaning to renew my subscription but so far their open coverage is keeping me informed on the euro view of the world.
(Well that, and assorted brit and continental newspaper websites.)

I've no need to let somebody filter world news for me when I can get my international coverage direct.

Essentially that is the problem with the premise they were "debating".
The idea that anybody can control/dictate what modern readers get to experience (via gatekeeping, "interpreting", or by mockery) is quaint when considered under the harsh light of modern connected reality. Both are forms of censorship, when you think of it.

Mocking adults who read YA is as effective as telling americans they need a local news vendor to interpret the outside world for them. There's no "great firewall" blocking off direct feeds from the rest of the planet so the modern critical thinker has no problem getting unfiltered news.

Freedom of the press no longer belongs solely to those that own a printing press so, of course, the entrenched players are floundering, looking for ways to control the uncontrolable.

Trouble is, there's a *lot* of djinns out of the bottle.

From SERENITY:

Quote:
River: People don’t like to be meddled with.

We tell them what to do, what to think. Don’t run, don’t walk. We’re in their homes and in their heads and we haven’t the right.

We’re meddlesome.

Teacher: River, we’re not telling people what to think… we’re just trying to show them how.
Show them how to "think properly".
No wonder they got a civil war.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:22 AM   #109
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Sure, you could have lots of reasons to dislike the New York Times. But if you dislike them for publishing an opinion piece saying that adults shouldn't read YA fiction, that's just silly. It was part of a package in which there were also SIX opinion pieces that were "pro" YA fiction.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-adult-fiction

eP
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:35 AM   #110
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Originally Posted by elemenoP View Post
Sure, you could have lots of reasons to dislike the New York Times. But if you dislike them for publishing an opinion piece saying that adults shouldn't read YA fiction, that's just silly. It was part of a package in which there were also SIX opinion pieces that were "pro" YA fiction.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate...-adult-fiction

eP
Pointed out way above.
It was also pointed out that the ostensibly "pro-" piece was painfully condescending.
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Old 05-02-2012, 09:54 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
From SERENITY:



Show them how to "think properly".
No wonder they got a civil war.
Anyone who quotes from SERENITY (or anything FIREFLY) gets karma from me!!! That just made reading all of this off topic thread worth it!!!! THANKS!
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:11 AM   #112
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And to think, I was excited this morning when I saw that The Serpent's Shadow (The Kane Chronicles, Book Three) was released.
...

So tonight I will read about Egyptian Gods and Magic through the lens of a kids book, I don't know that it even qualifies as a young adult book, and smile. Because it will have an intersting plot and do some cool things with mythological gods that I would not have expected. I also know that in another 5 years or so I will be able to recommend American Gods to my Nephew knowing that he actually knows most of the Greek and Egyptian Gods because of reading these types of books. Heck, I was able to discuss the Greek Gods with my 9 year old niece because she loves Percy Jackson.

...

Some of these books and series are pretty complex. They prepare kids for delving into some pretty complex concepts later in their life. I have no doubt that my nieces and nephews, all are readers, will not have a problem reading Dune, the Foundation Series, and Dickens because they have been learning how to understand and remember details from the various books that they read.

Now, I do not think Cat Warriors is on par with the Hunger Games, I am not sure 9 is the right age for Hunger Games, and I don't see too many adults getting into the Warrior Cats but to write off YA or even some Kids literature as meaningless and not complex is flat out silly.
I agree that writing off YA and Kid's lit as not complex is flat out silly. I also have the new Rick Riordan book downloaded, and I can't wait to start it after I finish the book that I am currently reading (likely today).

I read the NY Times article in question about a month ago, and I found it very offensive to suggest that adults shouldn't read YA. I read a very wide variety of literature, ranging from the classics of Greece and Rome (in the original Greek and Latin) to the Babysitters Club novels that I've kept since childhood. I resent anyone telling me what I should or should not be reading, and the elitist and snobby attitude that goes along with that sort of prescription. What anyone reads or doesn't read is their business.

To generalize about the value of YA fiction, comparing it to video games (which I also enjoy) without having read the books in question is, at the very least, a sign of extremely poor taste. I haven't read an article that got me this angry in a long time.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #113
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Anyone who quotes from SERENITY (or anything FIREFLY) gets karma from me!!! That just made reading all of this off topic thread worth it!!!! THANKS!
... and karma from me as well! (Although I extend that to any Whedonverse quotes).
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Old 05-02-2012, 11:35 AM   #114
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I once asked my father, a man who sat on the board of a few companies, why he read what he did (mostly Travis McGee, The Destroyer novels. He said "because that's the stuff that helps me relax after a long, hard day dealing with other peoples problems". For the same reasons I read anything I want without feeling that some opinionated jack*** is the arbiter of what I should or should not enjoy.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:10 PM   #115
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I would much rather read a Harry Potter book, The Hunger Games or even a Dr. Seusss book rather than some tripe by Joel Stein.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:24 PM   #116
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well to be honest most adults in the Usa read below YA level anyway.
"To be honest" where are you getting your statistics for "most" and your definition for "YA level?"

This sounds like just the kind of insulting attitude this thread is complaining about in the article.

Be more concerned with the 20% of adults worldwide who are illiterate rather than bashing "most" of the people in a country with a very high literacy rate and a huge book-reading market.

BTW, I didn't read past the first page of this thread, so forgive me if it's been addressed, but in reading the quotes fromt he NYT article...c'mon...surely he's joking.

Last edited by ApK; 05-02-2012 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by ApK View Post
BTW, I didn't read past the first page of this thread, so forgive me if it's been addressed, but in reading the quotes fromt he NYT article...c'mon...surely he's joking.
That's why my first take was they they were trolling.
But the NYT saw it as a serious-enough topic for discussion they set it up with multiple opinion pieces, "pro-" as well as con.
(shrug)


It might be related to the eternal "high culture" vs genre/entertainment reading debate.
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Old 05-02-2012, 12:56 PM   #118
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Great article in the NYT: Authors Taking Risks Isn’t Kid Stuff

Quote:
For a young adult audience, authors have to be at the top of our game. Were competing with Facebook and smartphones, DVRs and iPods -- not to mention SATs and extracurriculars. We have to capture and hold our readers’ (limited) attention on Page 1 and sustain it until the end. Young adults are willing to accompany an author just about anywhere -- to a dystopian future or the ancient past -- but they will not tolerate anything extraneous or self indulgent.

We may not yet be getting the big advances that our "grown-up" counterparts earn. But our rewards are in our in-boxes: blunt, heartfelt, often misspelled e-mails from kids who tell you exactly what they think.

“U write prtty good violence for a girl,” said one reader. Another: “Keep it up. U r not as lame as some people.”

My favorite e-mail, however, is from an adult.

"Did you know your book is in the children's section?"
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:53 AM   #119
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Sounds to me like they the NYTimes just wanted attention. Journalism these days is little more than 'sensationalism.'

Comparing seeing someone reading porn or a YA book defies all logic and class.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:19 AM   #120
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It's not journalism, it's an opinion piece.
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