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Old 04-28-2012, 11:28 PM   #31
Talldog
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[QUOTE=fjtorres;2061333]
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Originally Posted by SteveEisenberg View Post
The NYT has been living off their last century reputation for way too long.
That is the truth.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:55 PM   #32
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I wonder what the author would think if he sat next to me on the bus since I have a tendency to read children's books. Some of those books are even picture books. I suppose I could claim it's part of my job, except that I am usually reading them for pleasure.
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Old 04-29-2012, 03:52 AM   #33
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Hmmm, NYT wants me to skip YA and focus on good wholesome adult intellectual enterntainment that is erudite and contemporary. Ok, time to Keep up with the Kardashians.
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Old 04-29-2012, 04:05 AM   #34
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I thought Joel Stein was a humor columnist? He's never really that funny though. Still, I wouldn't take him too seriously...
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Old 04-29-2012, 09:21 AM   #35
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In #31 I was accidentally misquoted. But since other posters have repeatedly made the mistaken implication that the OP internet-only opinion piece represents some kind of corporate position, I'll consider myself in good company in terms of having views misrepresented.

There seem to be two big main corporate hate objects on this board -- Big 6 publishers, and The New York Times. I don't agree with the dislike for the first, but at least I think I understand it. With the latter, except for what I would think are only a few people who may be against the Times because of political views outside the scope of what we discuss here, it mystifies me a bit.

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I would never read the NYT.
According to the side panel, you live in Mexico. This past week, wasn't the New York Times reporting on WalMart paying bribes, and then on bribery in Mexico in general, close to the number one story there? I would think there are two classes of Mexican papers, those that paid the New York Times for the right to translate their stories (Reforma?), and those that rewrote them.

Last edited by SteveEisenberg; 04-29-2012 at 09:24 AM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:07 AM   #36
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No one has said this article represents a corporate position.
We have pointed out that it is representative of the historic level of competence and insite at the NYT.

Actually, it is above the standards often seen in their crime reporting.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:16 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by Hamlet53 View Post
Thanks for that link it is interesting. Those results either say something very encouraging about the some of books young people are reading, or very discouraging about the average adult novel.
Sadly, it is the latter.

I'm glad for any sign of hope for literacy of the younger generations because the older ones are pretty much a lost cause, by and by.

Last edited by fjtorres; 04-29-2012 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:24 AM   #38
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According to the side panel, you live in Mexico. This past week, wasn't the New York Times reporting on WalMart paying bribes, and then on bribery in Mexico in general, close to the number one story there? I would think there are two classes of Mexican papers, those that paid the New York Times for the right to translate their stories (Reforma?), and those that rewrote them.
There is a third class.... one that does not rely on shoddy investigation, editorialized reporting and inept analysis. In essence, one not based on 'work' done by the NYT.
My sidebar says California..... I can hardly wait to see how you profile my news sources.
Though I think we have gotten rather off topic. We should be discussing the pro / con of adults reading what some classify as YA literature, not that the source was from a purveyor of tripe.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:30 AM   #39
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If I allowed someone to bully me into changing my reading habits, then I wouldn't really be an adult. I'm not inclined to listen to anyone tell me what I must read, regardless of the source. A review might make me consider something.

But I'm not going to join in the axe-grinding against the Times.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:54 AM   #40
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[QUOTE=SteveEisenberg;2061886]In #31 I was accidentally misquoted. But since other posters have repeatedly made the mistaken implication that the OP internet-only opinion piece represents some kind of corporate position, I'll consider myself in good company in terms of having views misrepresented.

There seem to be two big main corporate hate objects on this board -- Big 6 publishers, and The New York Times. I don't agree with the dislike for the first, but at least I think I understand it. With the latter, except for what I would think are only a few people who may be against the Times because of political views outside the scope of what we discuss here, it mystifies me a bit.

QUOTE]

To answer your question, all people have filters through which they perceive the world. Usually they are oblivious to them, only noticing them when somebody else's filters disagree with their own. Which is why there is so much dislike for the New York Times.

The NYT has a rather blatant editorial set of filters. In addition, it embraces in its filters the "New York City is the Hub of the World" mindset that is so inherent to the New York City culture. Needless to say, this doesn't set well with non New Yorkers.

Here's a real-life example of the "New York City is the Hub of the World" mindset. In 2001, I was working for JP Morgan Chase, in a site in Texas. One of the top managers (not the CEO) sent out a Rah Rah mesage to all the people in the corporation about his trip around the world, touring various corporate sites. He spoke glowingly about the people at the following foreign sites- London, Paris, Mumbai, Singapore, Shanghai, and Columbus, Ohio.

Yes, he sent an email to the entire company calling Ohio a foreign country. And no, it wasn't just a gaffe. You got the same attitude continually from the co-workers I interfaced with daily, who were in New York. Everything west of the Hudson was a foreign country, to be exploited. (I was a back office programmer for the securities arm of JPM at the time).

It's not an attitude that most non-New Yorkers care to put up with....
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:10 PM   #41
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Quote from C.S. Lewis:

Quote:
Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.
I read a wide variety of books, and have read the Harry Potter books as an adult. I've never felt embarrassed about doing it or considering reading The Hunger Games to be anything distasteful. The author of this NY Times piece needs to grow up evidently.

Last edited by Ninjalawyer; 04-29-2012 at 12:11 PM. Reason: For great justice
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
The NYT has a rather blatant editorial set of filters. In addition, it embraces in its filters the "New York City is the Hub of the World" mindset that is so inherent to the New York City culture. Needless to say, this doesn't set well with non New Yorkers.
If that was true, why is the NYT read so widely nationwide? It is obviously sitting quite well with a lot of people outside of New York.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
Here's a real-life example of the "New York City is the Hub of the World" mindset.

It's not an attitude that most non-New Yorkers care to put up with....
Well, it *is* good for the odd bit of mockery:
http://mappery.com/maps/A-View-of-Wo...Avenue-Map.jpg


Adult mindsets generally try to calibrate reports as to source and bias; younger mindsets either accept them uncritically or reject them equally uncritically.

One of the things the better YA fiction does is present the reader with ambiguous ethics and morality (Hocking's TRYLLE Trilogy, for one, HUNGER GAMES, for another. Especially MOCKINGJAY.) to highlight the need to question *everything* and accept nothing at face value unless you *choose* to do so.

In recent times, even the better video games are playing in the arena of ambiguity. (The mostly brilliant MASS EFFECT Trilogy.)

There is hope for the young ones.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:42 PM   #44
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If that was true, why is the NYT read so widely nationwide?
As a companion piece to FOXNEWS, of course.
Both are equally biased, in directly opposite ways; combine both and you might get a glimmer of truth.

It's a purple world out there so triangulation is a required skill for the modern critical thinker.
(And the odd contrarian, too.)
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:52 PM   #45
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Whew, sorry I came to the discussion late...I was busy tossing The Wind in The Willows, Treasure Island, Aesop's Fables, and the Roald Dahl collection out the window because those are books for kids and I'm an adult, so obviously I am way too grown up for those. I mean we really can't have adults fantasizing, when they should be busy teaching their children to become NY Times columnists before they too are seen as simple minded. After all, anyone who works in print news obviously has their finger firmly on the pulse of modern times and what is acceptable for an up and coming adult in this highly literate society.

Now what were we talking about? Oh, yeah YA books--I'm firmly against them...anyone who came to literature too late to be interested in more dense books or who likes a good story in spite of who it may have been intended for is double plus bad and should have their eyes gouged out right after they admit that 2+2=5...
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