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Old 04-10-2012, 10:43 PM   #31
Hitch
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Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
That is not true. I used Framemaker for years and never once had a problem with not being able to fix what I wrote or having to resort to code view to make something work. A similar statement can be made about WORD I believe although not originally. What Sigil has is not a WYSIWYG editor but a semblance of a WYSIWYG display with minor editing capability.

I find I almost always make edits in code view for that very reason. It is not a full WYSIWYG editor.

Dale
DaleDe:

Which brings us back to a PAID solution, in which case, the application of money solves the problem (not your lack of skill, but the OP's). We've all pointed out that he could have this self-same experience, not for hundreds of buckeroos (currently $400, I think), like Pagemaker, but for a mere $40, for Jutoh. I know I've mentioned it numerous times, but the OP wants a program that costs nothing but his donation of choice, that works in BV and compensates for the lack of knowledge about html/CSS.

And, FWIW: I have to live with Word day-in and day-out. Can you type a plain old document in Word without having to resort to its (pitiful) "code view?" Yes--but you can't even create a reasonably complex outlined document without using its outline view, which is a type of code view, and heaven help you if something goes wrong; you can't find the stuff that they DON'T display, to figure out what the hell is conflicting with X, Y or Z. I wish to heaven that WordPerfect's standards had been adopted--at least then, you could actually see what was going on with the document, and see the tag pairs. With WORD, it's like working in the dark, IMHO.

The OP has OO. He can use the various plugins to create a base ePUB and work from there. As far as FREE stuff goes, honestly--I don't know any other solutions that will address what he's already said. In fairness, he stated emphatically, several times, that he is incapable of learning or remembering "new stuff." How on earth would he manage, even in a Pagemaker-type environment? I think Jutoh is about as far as he would be capable of going, given his cognitive disability, (caused by stroke).

Just my $.02,
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:29 PM   #32
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The problem is that Sigil is being advertised as WYSIWYG and it's not WYSIWYG enough to be truly classed as WYSIWYG. So people (like the OP) who don't know much about HTML/CSS/XML/ePub try to use Sigil like it's WYSIWYG and it fails to work.
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Old 04-10-2012, 11:48 PM   #33
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I happened to stumble on this thread. I thought I would add my 2 cents worth. First let me say I am not a coder. I am just an average man on the street

When ever epub books are discused everyone says go to Sigil and fix it if something is wrong. Noone ever says you have to know code to use Sigil. As JSWolf says we common people are led to think Sigil is WYSIWYG. When someone says go to Sigil and fix it please add that unless you know how to code you can only do the most bacis things with it.

Everyone is given to believe that anyone can use Sigil.
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:06 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardenman View Post

When ever epub books are discused everyone says go to Sigil and fix it if something is wrong. Noone ever says you have to know code to use Sigil. .
if what you want to do is fix the odd typo or line break in a paid-for retail epub then you don't need to know anything about code. all that stuff is easily done in book view

if I you are trying to reshape/repair a badly pirated/converted pdf scan / text / word doc , that's another story - but one we dont encourage here,

if you wish to self publish you own original e-books then you should expect to have to learn the basics of epub code, though you could muddle through without using the various other tools already suggested
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:38 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gardenman View Post
I happened to stumble on this thread. I thought I would add my 2 cents worth. First let me say I am not a coder. I am just an average man on the street

When ever epub books are discused everyone says go to Sigil and fix it if something is wrong. Noone ever says you have to know code to use Sigil. As JSWolf says we common people are led to think Sigil is WYSIWYG. When someone says go to Sigil and fix it please add that unless you know how to code you can only do the most bacis things with it.

Everyone is given to believe that anyone can use Sigil.
Gardenman:

That's because, as far as "epub editors" go, Sigil really is the ONLY game in town, unless you want to use significantly (and I mean, significantly) more expensive html editors, and even then, one still has to know how to create an ncx (yourself), an OPF (yourself), create the required metadata tags, etc.

With regard to "we common people," I taught myself to code, using first MBPC to learn the basics of Kindle bookmaking; then I took the tutorials at W3schools.com, for both CSS and HTML, and then I started to use Sigil. Before that, like the "common man," I knew how to use Word, Excel, and the usual, like MS Project, etc. I didn't have ANY coding background, other than having used WordPerfect, so I understood the concept of tag pairs. That's IT. No expensive classes, no fancy tutorials; all OS programs and some time. I was the ubiquitous average (wo)man on the street who received a Kindle for Xmas, and started making PG books into books for myself. Now I own a company that does this. So, anyone CAN use Sigil--the question is whether they are willing to put their own time into learning how to use it.

Honestly, I don't "get" the whole "making an eBook should be a walk in the park" thing. I think it's Amazon's fault; they created a semi-proficient "upload-Word-and-get-a-sellable-if-not-wonderfully-formatted-book" platform, so now every Tom Dick and Harry who can key thinks that typing something in Word is the equivalent of making an eBook. Type--enter "The End"--upload to Amazon--kablammo, instant eBook. The fact that there are, literally, hundreds of thousands of badly-formatted, Word-to-MOBI files on Amazon doesn't seem to enter into the discussion, and I get VERY few prospective clients that have even bothered to download K4PC, or Previewer, or ADE and even familiarize themselves with what happens in an eBook. (For example: text reflowing. This seems to be an utterly alien concept, and literally, 80% of the Proof sheets we get will have comments like "move this paragraph to the top of page X." Or font resizing). [/rant]

And Sigil IS "WYSIWYG," for text editing. it is NOT WYSIWYG for fixing HTML, because essentially, nothing is, (and how could it be?) and as far as ePUBs go, generally, the "WYG" is highly dependent upon the final device. Anyone who stumbles across this thread who has ever used Google's Blogger, which is allegedly a "WYSIWYG" html editor blogging platform, knows just how ridiculous that idea is; a WYSIWYG html editor, to fix the coding, just doesn't work, IME. Most of the people who come in my door can't even fix paragraph alignments, indents, or styles in MS-WORD, which is as WYSIWYG as the day is long...so I don't know why anyone thinks it (WYSIWYG html editing) should be "doable" for the average Joe in Sigil.

However, @user_none, perhaps the "description" should be changed, so that people aren't mistakenly attempting to use Sigil as Jutoh. I know that neither Valloric nor you intended it to be, and this discussion may have some relevance to the "man on the street," vis-a-vis the description, if nothing more. {Shrug}.

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Old 04-11-2012, 06:29 AM   #36
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WYSIWYG = What You See Is What You Get

That is true for Sigil and Book-View, any (light) editing will be shown as it will (probably) be in final epub. It's editing capabilities are (very) limited but it is WYSIWYG.

It isn't 'Whatever You Want To Do Can Easily Be Done' or some other ludicrous acronym to mean that sort of thing.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by cybmole View Post
if what you want to do is fix the odd typo or line break in a paid-for retail epub then you don't need to know anything about code. all that stuff is easily done in book view
But if that retail ePub has DRM, you then have to know how to remove the DRM before you can edit it in Sigil.
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Old 04-11-2012, 11:11 AM   #38
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Old 04-11-2012, 12:21 PM   #39
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Old 04-11-2012, 03:50 PM   #40
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But if that retail ePub has DRM, you then have to know how to remove the DRM before you can edit it in Sigil.
that is also true, but instructions for that do exist, as we all know ( just not here)

The OP now admits to being a Kindle user, though, so he's also got to live with .mobi conversions spoiling his nice .Epub layouts. I expect he'll blame Sigil for that, also., & demand a "save as mobi" option.
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Old 04-11-2012, 08:26 PM   #41
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...so he's also got to live with .mobi conversions spoiling his nice .Epub layouts. I expect he'll blame Sigil for that, also., & demand a "save as mobi" option.
I wouldn't worry about that, I highly doubt that he'll get that far.
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