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Old 03-30-2012, 11:45 AM   #271
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And should you ever lose them from all those devices, the "underground" community has been quick to release both the UK & US commercial versions.
I wonder if those uploaders are 100% certain they were successful in removing every, single traceable "mark?" They may have just "bet the farm" on their abilities.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:56 AM   #272
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Either way, I am not surprised that they are out there. It would be nice if they get themselves caught. I doubt that is going to happen but who knows.

Not that it matters, there were professional copies available before the e-books were sold any way.
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Old 03-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #273
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It's easy enough to strip text files (html, css, opf, ncx, xml, xpgt). The questionable part are the graphics. It's possible those may have watermarks that can survive conversion.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:06 PM   #274
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I was looking at my copy of the first book last night and it has two copies of the file for the Hogwarts crest, but they are slightly different sizes although visibly identical.

Now I know that the book includes the first chapter of the second - and includes the cover, title page etc from that book - including the page with the crest, but wouldn't it be more normal to link back to the same image file? (or can't you do that in ePub?) Even if you need two separate copies you'd think they'd be the same size.

Can't help wondering if there's some watermarking in there.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:26 PM   #275
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I purchased the HP books and have been looking into the watermarking for my own curiosity and not for any nefarious purposes.

I won't provide any specifics, but I can tell you that watermarking does exist in (at least) the following locations: Copyright page, CSS file, JPEG EXIF data, PNG steganography, and in the filenames/links themselves.

It's quite secure, much more so than I originally thought, and some of the approaches were clever enough to bring a smile to my face.

As I had never peeked into an eBook before, I'm especially pleased with what I've been able to learn about the ePub format as a result.
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Old 03-30-2012, 01:35 PM   #276
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I wonder if those uploaders are 100% certain they were successful in removing every, single traceable "mark?" They may have just "bet the farm" on their abilities.
Why bother when they can just buy using a stolen CC and upload with watermarks intact.

Also Rowling shouldn't be concerned, the HP books were already available, this way she's getting money off of all those of us who wanted the option to get the books legally.
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:55 PM   #277
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Why bother when they can just buy using a stolen CC and upload with watermarks intact.

Also Rowling shouldn't be concerned, the HP books were already available, this way she's getting money off of all those of us who wanted the option to get the books legally.
Nefarious as those nasty pirates are, stealing CCs in order to upload Harry Potter books is a bit absurd, no? Did you consider the use of prepaid charge cards? or PayPal? Or someone involved in the commerce of the ebooks? Give these chaps some credit (pardon le pun, even if we do disapprove of their practice.

Actually, I read in the Financial Times that Rowling was originally reluctant to release the books in digital format, fearing...correctly...they would be pirated. Which is why all purchases have to go through her Pottermore site, ensuring control via watermarking...and higher profits. The rich just keep getting richer...as they say.
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Old 03-30-2012, 06:55 PM   #278
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Originally Posted by seanbob View Post
I won't provide any specifics, but I can tell you that watermarking does exist in (at least) the following locations: Copyright page, CSS file, JPEG EXIF data, PNG steganography, and in the filenames/links themselves.
I'm curious how you worked out that there was watermarking in the images.

We could post the MD5 hashes of the images and see if they differ at least. I've got the UK version of Prisoner of Azkaban from an Overdrive library last night (which might or might not be representative of books purchased through Pottermore - I suspect it isn't), and it has these images with these MD5 hashes:

MD5 (OEBPS/images/cover.jpg) = 44191b6547e4563c7f4facf047752fe8
MD5 (OEBPS/images/cover4.jpg) = 012e75183308ec8a1bb83de61faf5147
MD5 (OEBPS/images/logo.jpg) = cb7dd835bcefc545840e5e20dd1a7dfc
MD5 (OEBPS/images/title_image.jpg) = 9855cd4600f24373c342ca9811ad523c
MD5 (OEBPS/images/title_image4.jpg) = 9855cd4600f24373c342ca9811ad523c

Cheers,
Simon.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:03 PM   #279
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Originally Posted by markpearl View Post
Nefarious as those nasty pirates are, stealing CCs in order to upload Harry Potter books is a bit absurd, no? Did you consider the use of prepaid charge cards? or PayPal? Or someone involved in the commerce of the ebooks? Give these chaps some credit (pardon le pun, even if we do disapprove of their practice.
Stolen credit cards are quite often used to purchase software, games and other digital products which are then uploaded along with the license key to file sharing sites (or cracked if activation is required). Why not ebooks?

I'm not saying that's what happened nor that there aren't easier/more likely ways, but that wasn't the original point I was trying to make with my post. It was that someone doesn't have to even attempt to remove watermarks and be certain they've got them all before uploading to a file sharing site if the watermark doesn't identify them in the first place.

PS it was a good pun
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Actually, I read in the Financial Times that Rowling was originally reluctant to release the books in digital format, fearing...correctly...they would be pirated. Which is why all purchases have to go through her Pottermore site, ensuring control via watermarking...and higher profits. The rich just keep getting richer...as they say.
Yes, it's been stated on here many times that piracy was a concern, followed by people pointing out that the ebooks are already been pirated online. So by withholding an official release of the ebooks, she's not only losing out to piracy (which she will anyway) but also missing out on sales to customers who do want to legally buy the books.

Putting everything through the pottermore site will not make a single bit of difference about whether it's pirated or not, neither will the use of watermarks. It could be totally DRM free, watermarked or adobe/amazon infested, it would be pirated all the same.

Of all the reasons for not releasing ebooks, piracy imho is the most silly one for her to consider.

Last edited by JoeD; 03-30-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:10 PM   #280
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I'm curious how you worked out that there was watermarking in the images.
I'm not who that was directed to, but I used a file compare program (Beyond Compare) to compare the same image from two sources; a direct download from Pottermore and from my linked B&N account. The middle image is the difference. I don't know how the diff is calculated, but it definitely shows something there. I edited the pattern a bit out of paranoia, but that's a good representation.

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Old 03-30-2012, 09:43 PM   #281
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Thanks OddCosine for that. Smart buggers, ain't they?

Cheers,
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:35 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by OddCosine View Post
I'm not who that was directed to, but I used a file compare program (Beyond Compare) to compare the same image from two sources; a direct download from Pottermore and from my linked B&N account. The middle image is the difference. I don't know how the diff is calculated, but it definitely shows something there. I edited the pattern a bit out of paranoia, but that's a good representation.

Interesting. Is that Morse?
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:52 PM   #283
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I won't provide any specifics, but I can tell you that watermarking does exist in (at least) the following locations: Copyright page, CSS file, JPEG EXIF data, PNG steganography, and in the filenames/links themselves.
It seems interesting.
Why won't you provide specifics?
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:24 AM   #284
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It seems interesting.
Why won't you provide specifics?
As much as I'd like to...

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/faq...ing_guidelines

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MobileRead does not condone or support the use of this web site to break the law. This means that we will not allow posting of instructions showing someone how to break the law, requests for such instructions, nor uploads or links to items that have the sole purpose of breaking the law.

It is our policy that while DRM removal may be discussed in the abstract, providing detailed how-to instructions, uploading of DRM-removal tools, or linking to sites where these tools or detailed instructions are provided is forbidden at MobileRead.
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Old 03-31-2012, 01:36 AM   #285
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I'm curious how you worked out that there was watermarking in the images.

I've got the UK version of Prisoner of Azkaban from an Overdrive library last night (which might or might not be representative of books purchased through Pottermore - I suspect it isn't), and it has these images.
You're right. The Overdrive library versions do differ from the Pottermore versions. They even carry a different ISBN. I don't believe that their images include watermarking.

I worked it out by closely examining the images based on an earlier post in this thread. I'm sure I looked something like this:

Last edited by seanbob; 03-31-2012 at 05:24 AM.
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