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Old 03-03-2012, 05:38 PM   #301
DiapDealer
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
There are plenty of other reasons to hate you.
Touché Wolfie... Touché.
Nicely played.
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Old 03-03-2012, 05:45 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by anamardoll View Post
*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things, I guess.

Look, this started because I pointed out the fact that when an indie author pulls a book from the B&N store, the reader can no longer download the book they bought.

Someone -- I won't even bother to check -- said, "I realize that B&N has scores of lawyers and I myself have zero legal training whatsoever, however, that must be against the law."

The Amazon TOS has been provided to demonstrate that, no, not really. That is all.

H'mmm, when I buy an ebook from BN, the book is transferred to my archive where it is ready for download. Are you saying that if the indie author goes KDP, the purchased book disappears from my archive? I'm sorry, but that's an extraordinary claim, and extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence.
What did BN customer service say? They should at least refund you the price of the book .

BTW, BN EULA HERE.

It WAS difficult to find. Key quote:

Quote:
Your purchased Digital Content will be stored in, or accessible from, your NOOK Library on the Barnes & Noble.com Site. You can access your NOOK Library by signing into your Barnes & Noble.com account. You may also transfer the Digital Content from your NOOK Library to no more than a total of six (6) other electronic devices that you own. Y
Seems to me that your purchased eBook HAS to be stored in the NOOK library for download. If it ain't in there, its a violation of the agreement . You need to get up on your hind legs and make a fuss.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:11 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by anamardoll View Post
*sigh* This is why we can't have nice things, I guess.

Look, this started because I pointed out the fact that when an indie author pulls a book from the B&N store, the reader can no longer download the book they bought.

Someone -- I won't even bother to check -- said, "I realize that B&N has scores of lawyers and I myself have zero legal training whatsoever, however, that must be against the law."

The Amazon TOS has been provided to demonstrate that, no, not really. That is all.
Maybe an exchange like that took place earlier in the thread but this recent talk of TOSs etc was started by me replying to the thing about B&N removing the download link and I didn't say "it must be against the law" (again maybe you were referring to someone else but no-one in this recent exchange said that either).

I was making a different point. It had been stated that a consequence of authors joining Select was B&N download links disappearing. I don't doubt the fact of that. The author was seen as to blame for this, however I was questioning the idea that B&N legally had to remove the link. I think what happened is they had to remove its "for sale" link and weren't set up to do that without also removing the "re-download" link for paying customers. I'm not saying however that I thought B&N had to provide that second link.

In other words B&N provided a service (re-download-ability) that they didn't have to, but which was less good than it could be, and as such share some of the blame for the consequences of the author's decision to remove it for sale.

As has been pointed out by others I don't believe the fact that B&N or Amazon can remove the service of re-download-ability at will means they can revoke the license they gave me to use the file I already have.

Someone mentioned the infamous "1984" case. This is different because although it was shocking that they removed the file from people's accounts and kindles, they did so not because they had an at-will right to remove it at any time, but because they discovered they'd never had the right to distribute it in the first place.

EDIT: In light of stonetools' latest post let me clarify that when I say I believe B&N didn't "have to" provide a download link, I meant as a general part of their responsibility in granting the license to the file in the first place. It does seem that they have committed themselves by their own EULA to providing that link. In fact in my original posts I considered the possibility that they had some small print somewhere covering themselves in cases like this if the book was removed for sale but I wasn't able to check that so I didn't mention it. It now seems like the reverse is true.

Last edited by latepaul; 03-03-2012 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:12 PM   #304
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Originally Posted by SeaKing View Post
I am confused. I see all these cries of doom and destruction coming.
I see arguments about how many TOSs can dance on your screen.
I see everything except an actual case of the great Satan Amazon being "criminal."

Is it the kool-aid? What are you guys drinking that is giving you such nightmares?
I suggest you put away the kool-aid, go straight, and fly right.
Nope, I don't drink kool-aid. It irritates my throat and makes me crankier than normal. My brain just doesn't seem to be wired like everyone else's.
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Old 03-03-2012, 06:16 PM   #305
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When Amazon pulled 1984 (sorry it is the only example I know off the top of my head) they removed it from the archive. If a Publisher pulls a book, or in this case an author, it is removed from the archive. You cannot download it again unless you have backed the book up on your computer.
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:47 PM   #306
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I let this thread move on for a few pages before checking back in, so pardon the tardiness!

1. I want a t-shirt that says:
"Don't hate because I'm beautiful."
"There are better reasons."

2. amamardol says: "The only difference between the format is the DRM. Once the DRM is stripped off -- via a variety of different means, I might add -- the ePUB is an ePUB is an ePUB. You can buy any ePUB from any store and as long as you yank off the DRM, you can load it to any ePUB reader. Which is to say ALL OF THEM that aren't marked as Kindle."

Yes, but by then, you're one click away from converting it to a mobi file for your Kindle!

Most people aren't going to strip DRM or convert files or do anything but load'n'read. So, roughly, we're in a one-store/one-device situation across the board. (I know...it isn't that clear-cut, which is why I say "roughly.")

The difference between Amazon and all the others is...Amazon dominates. The only chance the others have to compete with Amazon is to band together with a single format/DRM and fight on the issue of cross-compatibility. But they aren't. They aren't winning because they're playing the game badly.

3. You can click a box at Amazon KDP and not automatically renew the service. My option comes up March 7. I'm trying desperately to find a financial reason not to renew, and I'm not coming up with anything.

4. Can a book be placed on B&N without DRM? If so, can that book be read on other ereaders? I can't find the answer to this question. It would affect my decision to renew Select or not.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:09 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by J. Strnad View Post
4. Can a book be placed on B&N without DRM? If so, can that book be read on other ereaders? I can't find the answer to this question. It would affect my decision to renew Select or not.
Yes, one of our other MR member authors makes a comment in this thread about being able to have his books DRM-free via B&N's PubIt. But they don't give any indication about DRM status in the product info (like Amazon used to but doesn't anymore) and you'll have to let people know in the blurb.

DRM-free B&N books are just plain ePubs and I've had no problems converting any of the few I've gotten for reading on my Kindle. If you want to try for yourself, a lot of Smashwords-distributed B&N books are also DRM-free and you can pick a price-matched freebie to check, or just download the latest Samhain Publishing monthly promo freebie via the Deals forum if you don't want to dig for a Smashwords one.
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Old 03-05-2012, 12:27 AM   #308
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Yes, one of our other MR member authors makes a comment in this thread about being able to have his books DRM-free via B&N's PubIt. But they don't give any indication about DRM status in the product info (like Amazon used to but doesn't anymore) and you'll have to let people know in the blurb.

DRM-free B&N books are just plain ePubs and I've had no problems converting any of the few I've gotten for reading on my Kindle.
I might go off Select for the next few months, then. I have a promo coming up later this month (in my comic book, Ragemoor) that'll run for four months. I created the ad before Select appeared and it says something about Risen being "for all ereaders." If I can list it with B&N DRM-free, that statement would be true, even if the book's only available at two retailers.
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Old 03-05-2012, 03:28 AM   #309
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Can a book be placed on B&N without DRM?
Yes; my husband's ePub was published through PubIt and is DRM-free at Barnes & Noble. He mentions that in the book description there, but I wish B&N would provide that information too!

I've noticed a recent change at Amazon. If an Amazon ebook is DRM-free there, it used to say "Simultaneous device use: unlimited," but it looks like they've recently deleted that information on the product pages. So now that information needs to be added to the product description if you want readers to know.

[Oops! I just read ATDrake's post and see that my response was almost identical.]

Last edited by DreamWriter; 03-05-2012 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 03-05-2012, 10:09 AM   #310
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4. Can a book be placed on B&N without DRM? If so, can that book be read on other ereaders? I can't find the answer to this question. It would affect my decision to renew Select or not.
If you can place a book on B&N without DRM, then yes it will then be able to be read with other readers/apps that support ePub.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:42 AM   #311
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I'm going to try PubIt! one more time. RISEN goes off Select tomorrow. Borrows have dwindled noticeably of late.

I've reworked my B&N blurb, and I'll restore the link in my webpage once the book is back up at B&N. The ad I'm running March-June points to the webpage, so Amazon and B&N should get equal exposure through that.

I'm not looking for B&N to equal or even rival Amazon, but maybe it'll do better than 1% this time.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:46 AM   #312
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I'm going to try PubIt! one more time. RISEN goes off Select tomorrow. Borrows have dwindled noticeably of late.

I've reworked my B&N blurb, and I'll restore the link in my webpage once the book is back up at B&N. The ad I'm running March-June points to the webpage, so Amazon and B&N should get equal exposure through that.

I'm not looking for B&N to equal or even rival Amazon, but maybe it'll do better than 1% this time.
I think that's a great idea. I wonder...is it possible to list a giveaway ebook on GR? If so, I would list a [single] free copy on GR. It would garner a lot of interest. I've found a lot of good books from entering contests (that I rarely win, lol!).
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:50 AM   #313
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I think that's a great idea. I wonder...is it possible to list a giveaway ebook on GR? If so, I would list a [single] free copy on GR. It would garner a lot of interest. I've found a lot of good books from entering contests (that I rarely win, lol!).
Apparently not -- I looked into it, and it seems like the giveaways are print copies only.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:15 PM   #314
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Apparently not -- I looked into it, and it seems like the giveaways are print copies only.
Oh. That just sucks.
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Old 03-07-2012, 12:35 PM   #315
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Oh. That just sucks.
I know. The world hates indies.

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