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Old 03-02-2012, 09:31 AM   #1
Defenderland
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Question M92: Academic Reading of PDFs - how does it work?

I'm almost sold on the M92, because of this very informative post from "kodomo" here: http://www.e-reader-forum.de/ebook-r...nnt/#post55900

@Kodomo:
What steps and which software is necessary to merge annotations (SQLlite-files in hidden directory) with the original PDF?


I wasn't aware, that academic reading was already possible (with a few workarounds handling the annotations).

As a total noob, i would find it very helpful, if experienced users would share their knowledge and explain, how they manage their academic reading now and what changes in the workflow could be expected with coming FW updates.

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Old 03-02-2012, 12:47 PM   #2
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Our workflows differ as our needs do.
Instead of reading our 10.000 stories you better tell us what your work flow looks like and we can tell you if you would be able to do what you want to do

If you want to hear our stories then the topic is not named properly

Ex: I read PDFs, complex documents, search my messages, there is a link to one of them
I use scribbling to mark the text of interest and after that I transfer the scribbling to the desktop where the workflow is very complicated and very specific to my job
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:11 PM   #3
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I was thinking about opening this discussion (Scientific paper reading -PDFs- what is your workflow) on the Generic discussions forum... although there is a high proability that on the 10" ereader users would be interested in this and most of them are in three formus (JetBook, Onyx and PocketBook)

Anyway, to come back to your question I recommend you to read all the reviews the user jbaach posted here.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
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PF4Mobile,
for example the one specific task i asked:
Merge the annotations into the PDF and hyperlinks in the TOC for easy access of the references.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:05 PM   #5
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adding hyperlinks -no you won't get that
annotations: what sort of ?

Scribblings are the only ones you can currently merge with your PDF on an M92. There is no chance you could navigate between them
They are stored as layers. As far as I remember you can see how the layers are grouped in Adobe Acrobat. One thing you can do is this: before you start reading a book you can add a couple of layers at the beginning of each chapter/paragraph (it depends on how much time you have ) and after that hope that the scribblings will be added between your mark layers. See your added layers as bookmarks but this time in the Lyaers panel of a PDF as opposite to the Bookmark pannel. This might be a workaround for your problem...

I would like to have that feature too but I do realize that it is almost impossible as the scribblings are added as an overlay not as new contet. The only hope is that Onyx will make the highlighting proccess better that it is on most PDF viewers (I doubt that they will do it though(. By that I mean that they will write the code for higlighting to not only highlight the text (and store it as a comment-this is standard for most PDF readers) but aslo the highlighted text will be added automatically as bookmark ...and that just below the last bookmark for that section of the document. All in all a challenge and I have never seen that done. The most advanced PDF editing programs do not do that

Highlights stored separatedly as explained
Comments -never played with them and I am not sure how they are stored... However I find difficult to add comments with the current ONyx interface. Maybe when we can connect a keyboard to M92 we will be able to add comments more conveniently ..

that is all I know
PF

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Old 03-02-2012, 03:09 PM   #6
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No, no, i'm talking about annotations that are stored in SQLlite files like "kodomo" wrote. Didn't you read the link in my first post?
He writes that he can merge them into the PDF (ofcourse not on the M92, but on a PC).
Therefore my questions!!!

And from what i know so far, even the scribbles could be used as references, since they seem to be an added vector graphics as commentary. I don't know where i have seen the picture, but with the appropriate PDF-tool each scribble's line was displayed as a commentary.
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:32 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenderland View Post
I'm almost sold on the M92, because of this very informative post from "kodomo" here: http://www.e-reader-forum.de/ebook-r...nnt/#post55900

@Kodomo:
What steps and which software is necessary to merge annotations (SQLlite-files in hidden directory) with the original PDF?


I wasn't aware, that academic reading was already possible (with a few workarounds handling the annotations).

As a total noob, i would find it very helpful, if experienced users would share their knowledge and explain, how they manage their academic reading now and what changes in the workflow could be expected with coming FW updates.

They are beating the drums now in a german forum.
The adventure begins once you have the reader in your hands ...

Academic workflow - this depends, among other things, what kinds of docs you are using.
But all the good stuff you get on MS or even Android, is missing.

And as far as future expectations go: would this not be questions for the people at Onyx?
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Old 03-02-2012, 03:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenderland View Post
No, no, i'm talking about annotations that are stored in SQLlite files like "kodomo" wrote. Didn't you read the link in my first post?
He writes that he can merge them into the PDF (ofcourse not on the M92, but on a PC).
Therefore my questions!!!

And from what i know so far, even the scribbles could be used as references, since they seem to be an added vector graphics as commentary. I don't know where i have seen the picture, but with the appropriate PDF-tool each scribble's line was displayed as a commentary.
This is the only reference where he is talking about sqllite, below is Google's translation for that paragraph
"(Practical example: annotations end up as a vector graphic into a SQLite database with the same name in a hidden subdirectory ... when you move, so the file without moving the database according to 'disappear' the annotation - and reappear when they are moving back to the old place ... if you know it, you can simply mitverschieben but the DB - and they disappear, of course, not even when they are brought together into a new PDF. ... they are simply a part of. pdf ) "

Unless google is dumb in translations komodo is refferring to scribbles using annotations word. What he is indicating there is curnelty done with the "Merge" functions in the reader. You do not need any software on the desktop since the scribbles are merged with the original PDF

Yes you saw my messages here on this forum. I looked at a file that jbaach posted here and I could see that the scribbles where stored in a mysql file (that was before M92, I think it was for M92)
I was also the one who indicated that the scribles are stored as layers ...check my older messages here
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Old 03-02-2012, 05:19 PM   #9
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Ok, so let me sum up, if i have a correct overview of what is already possible and what will definately come (please feel free to correct me):

Scribbles:
They already can be merged automatically into a new PDF.
But there is no information added to the TOC.

But with special PDF-software it is possible to show a list of all scribbles, because they are stored as comments.
What software can do this? I guess Acrobat?
Any alternatives?
Do these scribble-comments have hyperlink functionality in this software?

Highlights of text:
Can be exported as TXT (with personal annotations? i.e. adding text like the page number?)
How is the TXT-file handled, if the PDF is closed and later the highlighting continues? Is the data appended to the existing file, an additional file added, or the old file overwritten?

Work already in progress:
*Highlights of text will also be stored in PDFs like scribbles ("Merge highlights along with scribble into new PDF").
*Annotation information visible in Table of Contents (ToC).
*Hide and display scribbles and/or annotations on pdf files on the M92 at will.

Further work already in progress:

*Chronology for each book – means saving and showing of last (let say 10 or another configurable value) opened pages in a book. So a reader can easily go for example to a register/addendum and back to the last read page (show taskbar let say by long holding the OK button) - A HUGE THING FOR EFFICIENT READING - jumping to TOC, to references or the Index and back.

*Column Zoom mode - navigating along column with buttons, flipping to other column at end/beginning of current column

Correct?
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Defenderland View Post
Ok, so let me sum up, if i have a correct overview of what is already possible and what will definately come (please feel free to correct me):

Scribbles:
They already can be merged automatically into a new PDF.
But there is no information added to the TOC.

But with special PDF-software it is possible to show a list of all scribbles, because they are stored as comments.
What software can do this? I guess Acrobat?
Any alternatives?
Do these scribble-comments have hyperlink functionality in this software?


Highlights of text:
Can be exported as TXT (with personal annotations? i.e. adding text like the page number?)
How is the TXT-file handled, if the PDF is closed and later the highlighting continues?
for exporting the text it is always exported in a text file but it also stays in the original file (don''t know how it is stored)
Is the data appended to the existing file, an additional file added, or the old file overwritten?
not sure where they are stored. when you resume the highlighting, the old highlights are already shown in the file althogh they are not stored in the file.

Work already in progress:
*Highlights of text will also be stored in PDFs like scribbles ("Merge highlights along with scribble into new PDF").
*Annotation information visible in Table of Contents (ToC).
*Hide and display scribbles and/or annotations on pdf files on the M92 at will.

Further work already in progress:

*Chronology for each book – means saving and showing of last (let say 10 or another configurable value) opened pages in a book. So a reader can easily go for example to a register/addendum and back to the last read page (show taskbar let say by long holding the OK button) - A HUGE THING FOR EFFICIENT READING - jumping to TOC, to references or the Index and back.

*Column Zoom mode - navigating along column with buttons, flipping to other column at end/beginning of current column


Correct?
correct
wrong
don't know, ask Onyx or Booxtor
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:10 PM   #11
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Vocabulary

ToC=that usually refers to the document content
Bookmarks=that helps you to locate a page and a section of a page. It also stores the desired zoom level set by the person who put the bookmark there

Bookmark != ToC

Sometimes they have the same content but not necessarly

Scribbling
=freehand drawing or writing in the document. Does not have any info by itself. It is a layer above the original document. It is not part of the document. not sure if it can be bookmarked.

Comments=text added to the document but it is not part of the structure of the initial document

Highlighted text=text...well...highlighted -here I am not sure how this is stored...

I just checked the structure of a PDF where the scribbles were merged in the doc
Now (after merging) the are stored in the content of the document and they are referred as polyline
There is no bookmark for any of them and this is normal since they are content.
A bookmark is a pointer in the document (by my understanding) and idicates the page and a position on the page (a square) where the content of interest is located
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:20 PM   #12
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Aren't you contradicting yourself here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PF4Mobile
Scribblings are the only ones you can currently merge with your PDF on an M92. There is no chance you could navigate between them
They are stored as layers. As far as I remember you can see how the layers are grouped in Adobe Acrobat.
So why should that
Quote:
But with special PDF-software it is possible to show a list of all scribbles, because they are stored as comments.
be wrong?
I have seen on a picture somehwere (i guess it was Acrobat) with an opened PDF including merged scribbles, where they were called "Comments" and were shown in a list.

The other parts you have colored in my text, are not from me but from the M92-Wiki-wishlist and all are marked yellow as already work in progress. Booxtor already has confirmed that the Wiki-list is correct.

You can find the Wiki-wishlist here:
http://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Boox_M92_wishlist
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:42 PM   #13
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Ahh, finally i have found the picture again:



From this great thread:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...157607&page=12

Last edited by Defenderland; 03-02-2012 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:58 PM   #14
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The application in this picture is not Acrobat but the free PDF-XChange-Viewer.
The merged scribbles are visible in normal PDF-viewers as "Comments".
And clicking on the comment hyperlinks to the scribble.

The more i learn about the M92, the more i like it.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:18 PM   #15
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yes you are correct in all the above, I am getting old and I forget what I did one month ago
Or forgetting is actually cleaning the house as these days I am loading lots of data in my brain (remember Johnny Mnemonic ) ? )

Please note that those are not really comments, where you see that scribble/writing "second" each letter is a comment.Do you really want that ? I doubt it

It an abuse to call them comments, I do not really understand why it is so.
I guess that my memory suffered from what is called interference (is this the right word?) ...eeeNote, another ereader that I bought and studied for a while stores the scribblings as layers...the confusion must have come from there...sorry for that...

I looked into this issue at that time and it was not efficient to count on scribbles as comments
Your best bet is to underline text and to make it in one shot each time so you can correctly jump between comments If you hesitated and a word is underlined with two pen moves then you will have two lines although you have one word underlined.
Unless you change the name of the so called comments manually you have no way to find out if you are really clicking to see the next comment or you are clicking on just the second line accidentally generated when you interrupted your scribbling (underlining one single word in fact). Just download the PDFs attached in that thread and play with them yourself

My advice: go and buy the damn thing, it works believe me
When I was about to buy M92 JBC surfaced and I was split between the two.
I ruled out PB9xx because of its inability to export comments/annotations properly
That was the case one month ago ...not sure if that changed
I do not want to go back to look

one more note: Boox M92 refers to the list one of us created here (komodo?)
Above I was talking about our beloved user called Booxtor who is relaing our prayers to the Onyx Gods ) (Booxtor, I am kidding, oK? )

Last edited by PF4Mobile; 03-02-2012 at 09:53 PM.
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