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Old 02-29-2012, 07:47 PM   #46
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If you store your electronic media on your hard drive then they cannot take it from you. If you are silly enough to not back up your electronic media then you are at fault. Pretty much basic common sense.
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:45 PM   #47
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If you store your electronic media on your hard drive then they cannot take it from you. If you are silly enough to not back up your electronic media then you are at fault. Pretty much basic common sense.
While I agree backing stuff up is the smart thing to do - and so is stripping DRM - I don't think this much work should fall on the consumer. No-one should have to read forums, download third party software and then customize it, to protect their own private property. Some of us here really like this kind of stuff and don't mind - but can you really expect the average user to go through all of this? My mother, for example, barely knows how to turn a PC off. But she loves her Kindle. Now, if something happens to her content, would it be her fault?

It's like pretending you understand how to fix engines before you buy a car. If you buy a car from GM, and it stops working six months later, is it your fault that you did not, in anticipation, make the necessary modifications to prevent that from happening?

What I mean is, I don't think this excuses firms. Yes, you can protect yourself. But you shouldn't have to.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:19 PM   #48
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We all know that hacking has become a problem and that it is not rare for peoples consumer accounts to be hacked. OK, so it is a rare event but it happens frequently enough that we are aware of it. Amazon locks any hacked account. They will give you a gift card so you can rebuy all of your electronic media but they cannot transfer the license from one account to another.

Don't ask me why, they can't. I don't pretend to understand.

GM does not give you a new car when your car is stolen. You get a check from your insurance and you hope it is enough to cover your car and the possessions in it. It is a hassle but that is what happens. You have insurance just in case your car is stolen. As a consumer you should back up your electronic media just in case your account is hacked.

If you violate a companies terms of service you risk losing access to that account and anything in it. That is not Amazon or anyone else's fault, you violated the terms of service. So don't be offended if you get caught and you lose access to your electonic media.

You might be pissed if GM comes and repossesses your car because you violated the terms of service by not making the monthly payments but it is within their rights to do just that. So be upset with Amazon for blocking you from accessing materials that they are storing for you if your account is banned because you violated the terms of service.

Or be smart and back your stuff up so that you are prepared in the rare event that you are the target of a rare event.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:04 AM   #49
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We all know that hacking has become a problem and that it is not rare for peoples consumer accounts to be hacked. OK, so it is a rare event but it happens frequently enough that we are aware of it. Amazon locks any hacked account. They will give you a gift card so you can rebuy all of your electronic media but they cannot transfer the license from one account to another.

Don't ask me why, they can't. I don't pretend to understand.

GM does not give you a new car when your car is stolen. You get a check from your insurance and you hope it is enough to cover your car and the possessions in it. It is a hassle but that is what happens. You have insurance just in case your car is stolen. As a consumer you should back up your electronic media just in case your account is hacked.

If you violate a companies terms of service you risk losing access to that account and anything in it. That is not Amazon or anyone else's fault, you violated the terms of service. So don't be offended if you get caught and you lose access to your electonic media.

You might be pissed if GM comes and repossesses your car because you violated the terms of service by not making the monthly payments but it is within their rights to do just that. So be upset with Amazon for blocking you from accessing materials that they are storing for you if your account is banned because you violated the terms of service.

Or be smart and back your stuff up so that you are prepared in the rare event that you are the target of a rare event.
First, bans are not just for violation of TOS. They also happen for other reasons (it is not a violation of TOS to return an item, for example) and the net seems to be wide. Regardless, if someone is abusing the system, they deserve a ban, I won't argue. Nor do I have evidence that innocent people are being banned - although there is some indication that happens.

But, to stay in your analogy. I buy 10 cars from GM. I fully pay for them. Five years later I buy another car. And I fail to make the payments on it. Now, GM comes along to repossess ALL my 11 cars. That is what Amazon does. And it would certainly not fly with 'material' goods.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:23 AM   #50
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But, to stay in your analogy. I buy 10 cars from GM. I fully pay for them. Five years later I buy another car. And I fail to make the payments on it. Now, GM comes along to repossess ALL my 11 cars. That is what Amazon does. And it would certainly not fly with 'material' goods.
I disgree with the anology of them coming to get
the 10 cars you paid for. They are denying you access to their systems, not coming an staking your stuff.

The analogy I would use is: you did something rude in a GM office building, so GM banned you from the building AND came and repossessed your car. They may have a right to ban you from the building, and under certain circumstances, the may have the right to repossess your car, but the can't take back your car because you were rude in the office.

That's what I think is wrong with what Amazon is accused with doing. You allegedly violate one policy, so they blanket cut you off from everything to do with your account. The punishment doesn't seem to fit the alleged crime.
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:11 AM   #51
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So don't store your stuff at Amazons house. Then they can't keep you from it. If they ban you from the property you are screwed unless you have stored your stuff at your house.

ie backup your electronic files on your home computer.
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Old 03-02-2012, 02:57 PM   #52
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Amazon is like a parent grounding naughty children in this case. Like no tv, video games etc for... forever
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:40 AM   #53
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I would say this. If you only store your stuff at Amazons house you are asking for trouble.If Amazon bans you from their house. You deserve to loose all of your stuff.
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Old 03-03-2012, 08:19 AM   #54
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I would say this. If you only store your stuff at Amazons house you are asking for trouble.If Amazon bans you from their house. You deserve to loose all of your stuff.
I think you probably mean "lose" ("no longer possess"), not "loose" ("set free").
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Old 03-03-2012, 09:31 PM   #55
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I think you probably mean "lose" ("no longer possess"), not "loose" ("set free").
Or "loose" as in not tight.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:58 AM   #56
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Or "loose" as in not tight.
But that's an adjective, not a verb .
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:14 AM   #57
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I would say this. If you only store your stuff at Amazons house you are asking for trouble.If Amazon bans you from their house. You deserve to loose all of your stuff.
I really can't agree with the "deserve". Nobody deserves that (as long as they didn't commit fraud etc). So all, mostly older generation, deserve to lose everything they bought because of their lack in knowledge of clouds, DRM, backing up? Customer shouldn't need to do any additional actions to protect himself.

Again would it be that hard to first WARN the person that his count of returns is too big so he could be more careful. If he still fails to be a good customer, ban him from buying, but don't take everything he legitimately bought himself from him.

I'm sure many have/had no idea that it's risky to return too much stuff. By law I have a right to return a product if I don't like it. I have that right - no questions asked. There are no exemptions written what as long as your return count is... How can a company steal from you for using your rights given by law? Now I would be paranoid to return even if I needed to (I have an extremely bad luck with electronics). Luckily for me I don't buy music/books from amazon, but I might want in the future.

Companies shouldn't advertise the right to return if you don't like it without a little * and explanation that if you abuse (which can be understood differently by all, like how much is too much) that right we gave you you are scr*ed. So don't even think of returning it (if you aren't satisfied). The return of faulty devices is a completely different thing, it's warranty/ guarantee or whatever.

I also wanted to ask if I close my account at amazon will I lose functionality of my kindle? Like collections and similar? They didn't work till I registered. Basically are we forced to have amazon account just to have a working kindle?

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Old 03-04-2012, 07:42 AM   #58
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I also wanted to ask if I close my account at amazon will I lose functionality of my kindle? Like collections and similar? They didn't work till I registered. Basically are we forced to have amazon account just to have a working kindle?
No, nobody is "forcing" you to have an Amazon account, and your Kindle will "work" unregistered. You will however, as you say, lose certain Kindle functionality such as the ability to create new collections, although existing ones will still be fine.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:37 AM   #59
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Well, I highly doubt that it is necessary to have amazon account to create a collection. I mean the technical side or whatever. Amazon actually forces you to have an account just to keep your kindle working. Creating collections is part of software. So far it's the first time I see an electronics product limited if not registered (usually software needs to be registered so it's legit - not stolen, serial and so on, but I already paid for my kindle). I would get it, if functions like see description didn't work since you need to contact with amazon.
Collections do not require a thing from amazon. I create them on kindle without enabling wifi. I call it plain forcing to have an account even once you don't want it.

Even more, date setting NEEDS to be synced (you can enter only the time). It made a big problem after resetting my kindle, since the date was incorrect and I lost the ability to see by most recent since time setting were incorrect.

And I think there might be some other functionality you might lose.

I'm sorry for not making it completely clear what I mean. English sometimes is hard for me.

It's like having a car with 4 doors and having only two of them work unless you register and keep the account for as long as you want to use all the doors. Does that make sense?

I just really hate to be forced to do things additionally/ not have a choice. If I bought Kindle I should have all functionality without any if/when/as long as you....
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:59 AM   #60
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Collections do not require a thing from amazon. I create them on kindle without enabling wifi. I call it plain forcing to have an account even once you don't want it.
Your Kindle does need to be registered in order to create collections. This requires that you have an Amazon account.
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