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Old 02-27-2012, 05:19 PM   #46
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let’s call it my first impressions.
I appreciate very much your skillful intervention, which adds real beef to the discussion.



Everyone can have now a better idea about the reader for how it really performs, and good hints about his possible developement.
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Old 02-27-2012, 05:43 PM   #47
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i tried my experiment with making a black block with a smaller white block inside and then colored text in that. the device simply cant make anything whiter than the gray background.

having seen the microscopic images I thought it might be possible that a lighter background was possible by now i am fairly certain thats as white as it can be. the only way to make white is to leave white eink below the red green and blue sub pixels and they are simply too big to "mix" visually into white especially with a true white subpixel next to them.

i wondered in another thread if a sort of pentile arrangement of the color filter would work better, perhaps even allowing for more white sub pixels. i think ill reach out to a few people to see what they think of that idea.

edit: hmm well it seems this grid of rgbw is already considered "pentile" but i still think a differetn arrangement of the filter might help brightening the whites

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Old 02-27-2012, 06:25 PM   #48
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i tried my experiment with making a black block with a smaller white block inside and then colored text in that. the device simply cant make anything whiter than the gray background.
The grey background definitely is this device's white (unfortunately).
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Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post
edit: hmm well it seems this grid of rgbw is already considered "pentile" but i still think a differetn arrangement of the filter might help brightening the whites
Well, you learn something new every day. I never knew that this arrangement was also found in LCDs.

Andrew
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:13 PM   #49
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edit the second- have you seen videos of TTS on the Jetbook or on Hanvon's original device?
Yes, one site showed a vid, though the tts is in russian.
I'm sure there are some dictionary files that can be downloaded to get the English versions (like your standard 'Mike', and 'Crystal').

Quote:
i wondered in another thread if a sort of pentile arrangement of the color filter would work better, perhaps even allowing for more white sub pixels. i think ill reach out to a few people to see what they think of that idea.
The way they arranged the color filter is for maximum text resolution while still maintaining fairly average colors.
Reducing the size of the color pixels to smaller would make the background more white, but also have less color.
Increasing the size of the color pixels would make it even darker grey.
Adding more white pixels would mean that you'd see a pixel grid on your screen (with white lines crossing the same grey background as current model),something you'd want to avoid.

Like mentioned, the grey-ish color is due to the color filters used over the white e-ink. Without them you'd have a fully fledged 1600x1200 B&W e-ink;but no colors.

The only way they could improve upon e-ink is if they would instead of making them black and white, make them black and silverish reflective; to get a maximum of light reflected back to the user.
They could also use a lower bit-depth (eg: limit themselves to 256 of the brightest of the total of 4k colors). Doing so would result in brighter colors.

If they succeed in directly printing the RGB patterns on e-ink,you'd have a near to perfect solution,but technology isn't there yet.

Pentile displays are not necessary for TV's and LCD's where the light source is emitting from behind the pixels.

Last edited by ProDigit; 02-27-2012 at 07:20 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:05 PM   #50
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Yes, one site showed a vid, though the tts is in russian.
I'm sure there are some dictionary files that can be downloaded to get the English versions (like your standard 'Mike', and 'Crystal').
there is already the oxford talking dictionary so it can do TTS, there just isnt a TTS available for reading a book.

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Reducing the size of the color pixels to smaller would make the background more white, but also have less color.

Adding more white pixels would mean that you'd see a pixel grid on your screen (with white lines crossing the same grey background as current model),something you'd want to avoid.
my idea of shrinking the sub pixel size would be so they mix visually to appear more white when you want white. if the r,g,b were each smaller then the white could be given more space allow for a brighter white. you might even be able to use it to make a lighter gray if its shaded right. does that make sense?
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:16 PM   #51
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Basing on what I can learn here* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b83dIs7S4Ug @ 8:00 smaller sub pixels would collect less light, so they would be less effective in displaying decently saturated colours.

Since these phisical limits I'm having serious difficulties in understanding where to find Triton's appeal for ebook readers, at present.

*despite the guy knows nothing about educational needs and practices

Last edited by lorenzoens; 02-27-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 09:18 PM   #52
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Take It Easy, Troll.

lorenzoens, im gonna have to disagree with your post.

I think everyone who posted here has a ton of information to say about the jetBook Color and have been discussing it for a while but i think you literally posted this to get the attention.

Get a unit, try it out, then write something about it. If you don't like it, return it.

You have absolutely 0 credibility in reviewing this device - not to be mean, but srsly.

Plus, the Goodereader review was on point - all their reviews are.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:00 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post

my idea of shrinking the sub pixel size would be so they mix visually to appear more white when you want white. if the r,g,b were each smaller then the white could be given more space allow for a brighter white. you might even be able to use it to make a lighter gray if its shaded right. does that make sense?
Yes, and that was what I was addressing.
Doing so is more complex than one would think.

First of all,you don't want to reduce the resolution, which means that the overall pixelsize needs to remain the same (keep the 1600x1200 resolution means you can't increase pixel size).
If the pixelsize is the same size, and you want more white to appear, there's no other way than to snoop off some pixel space from the colors,like in this pic:


This would result in less surface space for colors, thus even less vibrant colors.
The JBC doesn't really have the world's best colors; reducing them any less and you'd have a B&W device.
If you want to see more vibrant colors, you'd actually have to remove the white pixel and just use an RGB display, but current screen is the best compromise between colors and white back ground.


Pixels can't just be resized at any size you want to.There has to be some sort of squarish form for a pixel, not only to make easier manufacturing possible, but also to make screens compatible with current display drivers.

The only way to increase both colors and white background,will be to use less sensitive filters; filters aimed more towards the yellow. They'd give slightly brighter colors, and lighter background,at the cost of color precision;not that it matters that much, because the JBC does not have too precise color reproduction.
One thing is, light emitting from an LCD only passes the color filter once.
Light emitting from an outside source, passes the color filter twice; one more time as it bounces back from the back panel; so the light will be filtered twice. With that in mind they should make the LCD panel more with these color filters:


Meaning either more yellow, or make the filters thinner, that more light might pass the filter, and also more light exit the filter.Especially red and blue which appear more dark to the eye than green.

Last edited by ProDigit; 02-27-2012 at 11:53 PM.
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Old 02-27-2012, 11:33 PM   #54
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mmmm gives me much to think about, thanks Pro Digit!
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:28 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by LuBiB View Post
Get a unit, try it out, then write something about it. If you don't like it, return it.

You have absolutely 0 credibility in reviewing this device - not to be mean, but srsly.
  1. I didn't write any review as I clearly stated. If you think that one cannot make any idea of e-eink devices by seeing pics and reading reports, I don't understand -for example-: why did you spend your time for taking a lot of pictures of it? I compare what I see and read with my experience and knowledge about readers, which MAY be deeper than yours.
  2. You may want to answer to these owners', then:

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
    I've only had it for a couple hours t this point but I'm not happy. The screen is so gray that I plan to call it Dorian.
    ...
    But I will note that the software is not anywhere near being done. It doesn't have the annotation options I would have expected with a textbook platform. I also cannot find the web browser or a way to enable Wifi. (I don't think they work yet.)

    And I can definitely say that as a textbook platform the iPad offers more options for the same price.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by poohbear_nc View Post
    My approach is evaluating the Jetbook for reading books, as compared to the Kindle DXG. Rather than focus on the technical details, I am commenting on the "readability"

    1. The color Jetbook is glacially slow in loading books.
    ...
    2. The current Jetbook screen most closely resembles the original (non-Perl) DX screen in terms of the "muddiness" of the white spaces and the lack of crispness/clarity of the text - in any font choice.
    ...
    3. In any but the brightest lighting, ghosting is extremely visible and annoying.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mexmike View Post
    I have a Jetbook Color and also a Daily Edition PRS-950 so far, I am disappointed with the Jetbook compared to the Sony. I bought the Jetbook so that I could use it for PDF electronic schematics. Not good for that I've discovered.
    1)I know the Jetbook is twice the screen size but the Sony is so much faster; about twice as fast to turn pages.
    2) The screen is grey almost a cement green like colour. The Sony screen is much lighter, so reading the Jetbbook is more like black text on grey/green compared to black on almost white. This makes reading in poor light a strain
    .
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dulin's Books View Post
    The reader side however is woefully inadequate.
    ...
    The problem overall with the device is that it’s very much incomplete
    ...
    The speed and color issues are minor comparative to the other issues.
    And there's this question unanswered:
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by PF4Mobile View Post
    Can you please indicate what exactly JBC does better than other ereaders and in a decent way?

Oh yes, I will spend 500 dollars to test a unit that 99,9% I'd return. Sharing knowledge and discuss information is what forums are about. If you are not ok with this, it's your problem.

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Old 02-28-2012, 09:12 AM   #56
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there is one pattern here, you can not miss it: all the advocates of buying this device are making the color eInk screen a strong point of jetbook.
They seem to totally ignore the lack of functionality. Apparently Ectaco adapted in a rush whatever software they could and released the device to the market. A premature move and an uninspired price. If the changes are not radical by the end of March/April the entire thing will be mostly for children. And we all know who pays for children.

In Dulin's review, just to quote the latest you can read "there is no" at almost each one or two paragraphs.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:17 AM   #57
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Interesting thread folks!

I've been waiting for a device to read b/w-business-pdf in A4 (mostly articles from magazines e.g) since 2006. I got hold of one of the enTourage eEGe as soon as it was sold in Europe. I use it, like it and know it's limitations. I had a 9,7" pocketbook in my hands before it was available and then when it came to market. I don't own an ipad (don't want to).

I'd really like the 9,7" or bigger devices to finally see a breakthrough. And I had some really high hopes set on the Hanvon / Ectaco too .

But I don't believe any longer that eInk will be the one owning the professional and/or educational market. That chance has gone by. The big devices needed there are simply way too expensive to find mercy in front of any board considering the acquisition of devices for education. Simply won't happen. And formats of content will change in time and we will probably finally get rid of the PDF format instead. Won't be bad either.

What we'll probably see is someone like Asus teaming up with mirasol and putting those screens in laptops, netbooks and tablets. And eInk will gain in other areas and be around for some time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #58
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They seem to totally ignore the lack of functionality.
Maybe we will wait next close (very close) update and perhaps we secretly hope Ectaco one day (a beautiful day).....

.... will release a SDK!!!

this should be too good to be true
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:26 PM   #59
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The SDK would be very useful, if there'll be a good community to work on it.
All the enTourage users did hope and wait so much for a SDK which never arrived, although the company assured for long time it was going to be released. Unfortunately, it did never happen. It's not something which requires years of work, it's a matter of will from the company managers.

So I strongly sugget you to make some pressure on the company since now, to have it released soon. In the case everything goes bad, a possible community can still work on it

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Old 02-28-2012, 01:05 PM   #60
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Yes lorenzoens,
you are right. And Ectaco doesn't promise it. But many users had just inserted the request into the wishlist on Ectaco forum....
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