Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > News

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-19-2012, 11:44 PM   #16
AgentOrange
Coffee Monster
AgentOrange has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.AgentOrange has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.AgentOrange has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.AgentOrange has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.AgentOrange has a complete set of Star Wars action figures.
 
AgentOrange's Avatar
 
Posts: 12
Karma: 410
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado, USA
Device: iPod Touch
If ignorance is the reason publishers are thinking DRM is going to work, shouldn't they be making it their business to educate themselves about it? It's the same deal with the idiots who thought up SOPA and PIPA. Their own ignorance in the matter is what's losing them their money.
AgentOrange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 01:11 AM   #17
plib
Guru
plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 777
Karma: 6356004
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kobo Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Considering how ignorant the publishers were about the web and software, you can't completely blame them for their choices.
Yes. You can. DRM has never worked. Even for software that had hard-keyed hardware dongles that had to be plugged into a PC's serial port before a program would run!

They were either incompetently ignorant, in which case they should have been fired, or so blinded by greed that they thought they could push water uphill. Personally I think it's more likely the second option, either way they are certainly to blame.
plib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 06:26 AM   #18
sabredog
Geographically Restricted
sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sabredog's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,611
Karma: 14933353
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T3, Kindle 3, iPad2, Nexus7v2
This article pretty much proves that media companies truly do not understand how the digital economy actually works and what the modern customer is demanding AND expecting.

You might want to look up now, because that asteroid is getting rather large...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-content.shtml
sabredog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 06:45 AM   #19
xg4bx
Are you gonna eat that?
xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xg4bx's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,619
Karma: 22984236
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phillipsburg, NJ
Device: Kindle 3, Nook STG
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
This article pretty much proves that media companies truly do not understand how the digital economy actually works and what the modern customer is demanding AND expecting.

You might want to look up now, because that asteroid is getting rather large...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-content.shtml
that article is exactly what its about. they want you in their grasp in perpetuity. they don't make any money if they allow you to format shift or whatever, they want you buying a spanking new copy everytime a new format or ereader comes out.
xg4bx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 07:06 AM   #20
pdurrant
Santa Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 33,337
Karma: 90778786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Why? It was largely the pirates who were saying that. "Experts" were telling them that DRM would be effective, and they didn't know enough about software to not believe them.
Apple have been saying it for about a decade. The music industry finally paid attention, and now it's the book publishers making the same mistakes.

Here's Apple's Phil Schiller from May 2003, just after the iTunes Music Store opened:

Quote:
Our position, as it was with the iPod, is that the solution to music piracy is not a technological one. No one can make the perfect safe to put things in. And it won't be a legislative solution of someone passing a magic law that stops all piracy.

In the end, the solution will be a behavioral one. Many people will choose the legal and fair route. That's what we hope we've done here -- create something that's in many ways better than the free services.
(Bold added.)
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 07:15 AM   #21
spindlegirl
Grand Scheme of Things
spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
spindlegirl's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,238
Karma: 9848175
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near a Tim Hortons, most likely.
Device: Sony PRS-T2 (Black), K4, Moonreader pro on my LG Nexus 4 phone
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
This article pretty much proves that media companies truly do not understand how the digital economy actually works and what the modern customer is demanding AND expecting.

You might want to look up now, because that asteroid is getting rather large...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-content.shtml
I had to laugh at this quote from a guest commenter:
Quote:
"So I might be able to legally watch DVDs I bought soon? Awesome! ~ US Linux user, 2012"
Seriously, all most people want to do is freaking use the material they bought. They want to buy it and have it. End of. They don't want to regurgitate a purchase just because a new shiny player comes out next year.

There was one time where we borrowed a DVD from the library and the only media player it
listened to was the ripper! We had to copy it just to watch it! (we are linux users and watch all of our dvds on the dvd drive and the media player programs on our computer, we don't have tv)
spindlegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 07:26 AM   #22
plib
Guru
plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.plib ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 777
Karma: 6356004
Join Date: Jan 2012
Device: Kobo Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by sabredog View Post
This article pretty much proves that media companies truly do not understand how the digital economy actually works and what the modern customer is demanding AND expecting.

You might want to look up now, because that asteroid is getting rather large...

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/201...-content.shtml
I love this entry in the comments section beneath the article:

Quote:
"See, by only providing content through locked down, time limited, location restricted methods, the studios are actually giving us a lot more choices in how we consume our content. Dirty pirates can only consume their content in one way: no encryption, HD, and worldwide. But the studios give us an unending stream of different choices that provide real value to their content. Maybe you want DRM that requires a constant connection to the internet. They have that. Maybe you DRM that limits you to only certain devices. They have that. Maybe you want content that's purposefully degraded. They have that. Maybe you want to be able to watch content only in the US. They have that. Canada? They have that too. Content that expires after 48 hours? No problem. Maybe you want to have to watch it in the theater? They got you covered. The depth and breadth of choices that the studios provide is something that the evil pirates just cannot cover. The other day I asked someone at the pirate bay for an encrypted copy of The Grey that would only play on my computer for a week and they couldn't do it!"
plib is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 09:17 AM   #23
xg4bx
Are you gonna eat that?
xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xg4bx's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,619
Karma: 22984236
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phillipsburg, NJ
Device: Kindle 3, Nook STG
Quote:
Originally Posted by spindlegirl View Post
I had to laugh at this quote from a guest commenter:


Seriously, all most people want to do is freaking use the material they bought. They want to buy it and have it. End of. They don't want to regurgitate a purchase just because a new shiny player comes out next year.

There was one time where we borrowed a DVD from the library and the only media player it
listened to was the ripper! We had to copy it just to watch it! (we are linux users and watch all of our dvds on the dvd drive and the media player programs on our computer, we don't have tv)
pardon my french but it just gets tiresome buying the same sh*t over and over, ad nauseam. how many times can i humanly rebuy the same movies, books, albums, in new formats, new editions, etc before i just give up? how much more money can i pee away,never seeming to get ahead because i have to rebuy stuff i already bought?

thank god for things like netflix and the increase in streaming which killed any unenthusiastic interest i had in rebuying the same movies yet again in blu-ray. and i simply and utterly refuse to do the same thing for books. its not even an option on the table.

at the least, at the very least, until they invent brain implants digital is the technological end of the road....unless they invent ereaders that require a new format and won't carry over older ones.
xg4bx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 09:30 AM   #24
Steven Lyle Jordan
Grand Sorcerer
Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Steven Lyle Jordan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Steven Lyle Jordan's Avatar
 
Posts: 8,482
Karma: 5171130
Join Date: Jan 2006
Device: none
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
Here's Apple's Phil Schiller from May 2003, just after the iTunes Music Store opened:

Quote:
Our position, as it was with the iPod, is that the solution to music piracy is not a technological one. No one can make the perfect safe to put things in. And it won't be a legislative solution of someone passing a magic law that stops all piracy.

In the end, the solution will be a behavioral one. Many people will choose the legal and fair route. That's what we hope we've done here -- create something that's in many ways better than the free services.
Here's where you should've added the bold. In the end, the only reason people will choose the fair and legal route will be because it's the easy way to go... not because it's fair and legal. (Or, to put another way, when the illegal way to go becomes harder, as in likely to get you in trouble and cost you something.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by plib View Post
Yes. You can. DRM has never worked.
Talk to Microsoft. Talk to Adobe. They have DRM systems that work just fine. Working DRM is not impossible. Just sayin'.
Steven Lyle Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 09:48 AM   #25
sabredog
Geographically Restricted
sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sabredog ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sabredog's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,611
Karma: 14933353
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Perth, Australia
Device: Sony PRS-650, Sony PRS-T3, Kindle 3, iPad2, Nexus7v2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Talk to Microsoft. Talk to Adobe. They have DRM systems that work just fine. Working DRM is not impossible. Just sayin'.
But they do not work, no more than DRM on computer games, ebooks, DVD, blu-ray, protected PDF et al.

Adobe and Microsoft products are freely available for download or even purchase at bootleg markets all over Asia.

No DRM is truly able to say it is 100% guaranteed to work.

Last edited by sabredog; 02-20-2012 at 09:51 AM.
sabredog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 10:03 AM   #26
spindlegirl
Grand Scheme of Things
spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.spindlegirl ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
spindlegirl's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,238
Karma: 9848175
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Near a Tim Hortons, most likely.
Device: Sony PRS-T2 (Black), K4, Moonreader pro on my LG Nexus 4 phone
DRM only really belongs in rentals and library loans. For people who already buy the book, well, bleeping leave them alone.

That's why, for the most part, I don't buy e-books unless they are DRM free, and/or printed books. I have printed books that I bought in 1975 for crying out loud, that I still own, and can still read, well, because I bought them. I own them. They are mine. Nobody is coming after nearly 40 years later to finger wag me to see if I've still used it properly, it's bleeping mine, and I bought it. Nobody's flipping business if I still possess the ability to read it.

Most people do the "fair and legal" because well, buying stuff is the default. Buying stuff isn't always the easiest way to go. Most people I know buy stuff even after having googled the book title and the first hit is TPB or something. Most people just want to be regular people who buy stuff, and then go home and use it.

It shouldn't be my job to "learn how to strip DRM" while people whisper in hushed tones that they have the tools. If I bought a book, I bought a book, end of.
spindlegirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 10:09 AM   #27
pdurrant
Santa Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 33,337
Karma: 90778786
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
In the end, the only reason people will choose the fair and legal route will be because it's the easy way to go... not because it's fair and legal. (Or, to put another way, when the illegal way to go becomes harder, as in likely to get you in trouble and cost you something.)
I disagree. I believe that people, in general, choose the fair and legal route because it's the fair and legal route. Often despite the fact that it's harder to set up, and the product is harder to use, because of the DRM attached.

(Consider the number of posts here about people having problems with Adobe DRM - authorising/deauthorising devices, finding out that they've lost access through not setting it up properly to start with, etc.)

Currently ebook publishers have made the fair and legal route harder to use, and the product less useful. And they're now trying to make the fair and legal route comparatively easier by making the illegal route riskier, instead of doing the sensible thing and making the legal route easier and better than the illegal one.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 10:26 AM   #28
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,531
Karma: 43837842
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant
I disagree. I believe that people, in general, choose the fair and legal route because it's the fair and legal route. Often despite the fact that it's harder to set up, and the product is harder to use, because of the DRM attached.
I agree completely. I don't believe anyone decides to pirate anything simply because its easier than than going the legal route. People decide to pirate long before they have all the necessary facts to judge its "level of difficulty." They pirate for other reasons.

And laws to punish downloaders are designed to seek recompense for money they were never going to make in the first place.

There will always be enough customers willing to pay for their books to support authors who are writing books that people want to read. Honesty's not dead... no matter what you hear to the contrary.

Last edited by DiapDealer; 02-20-2012 at 10:32 AM.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 11:33 AM   #29
Sil_liS
Wizard
Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Sil_liS ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 4,894
Karma: 33602910
Join Date: Oct 2010
Device: PocketBook 903 & 360+
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Why? It was largely the pirates who were saying that. "Experts" were telling them that DRM would be effective, and they didn't know enough about software to not believe them.
Wouldn't the pirates be the experts in piracy?
Sil_liS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-20-2012, 12:06 PM   #30
stonetools
Wizard
stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.stonetools ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
stonetools's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,016
Karma: 2838487
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Washington, DC
Device: Ipad, IPhone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan View Post
Here's where you should've added the bold. In the end, the only reason people will choose the fair and legal route will be because it's the easy way to go... not because it's fair and legal. (Or, to put another way, when the illegal way to go becomes harder, as in likely to get you in trouble and cost you something.)



Talk to Microsoft. Talk to Adobe. They have DRM systems that work just fine. Working DRM is not impossible. Just sayin'.
Apple has a working DRM scheme for most media that has never been cracked. Whats interesting about the Schiller quote is that it dates to 2003. At that time , and for six years after, the iTunes store offered DRMed music.
The Schiller quote cannot be used for argument that that law enforcement or DRM schemes have no place in an anti piracy strategy. Apple , of all companies, certainly does not believe that.
stonetools is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Anti-Piracy group wants to ban you from talking about piracy Nate the great News 39 06-06-2012 06:20 AM
iPad More People Recognizing That Media iPad Adaptations Feel Like CD-ROM Media kjk Apple Devices 1 06-14-2010 07:26 PM
Strange issue with media.xml pepak Sony Reader Dev Corner 2 09-08-2008 10:42 AM
Cooper blog: News media is lost about digital media, too Steven Lyle Jordan Deals, Freebies, and Resources (No Self-Promotion) 0 11-05-2007 11:06 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:05 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.