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Old 01-05-2012, 02:18 AM   #16
molman
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Thanks for this novou. Reading your replies I feel my position is similar to yours, which seems rather measured and reasonable. I don't have an issue with Kobo's desire for said metrics but I do prefer transparency and an option for my participation which I don't feel some lines buried in a ToS far removed from PoS and my device constitutes, nor am I partial to said metrics passing through Google's data collecting services.

@Lunchtray: The harvesting of data is all part and parcel with interacting with most organizations these days, but just because this is so doesn't mean that everyone else does it is a sound defense for such practices which if we're honest are more-oft action with the ignorance of the general populace.

I'm also curious of your assertion "that almost every piece of software on any type of mobile device has Google Analytics inserted into it right?". Do you have to source for this claim. I'm not doubting that many mobile apps send back statistics/data in some form, just more curious that "almost every" one uses GA?

Last edited by molman; 01-05-2012 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 01-05-2012, 10:30 AM   #17
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@Lunchtray: The harvesting of data is all part and parcel with interacting with most organizations these days, but just because this is so doesn't mean that everyone else does it is a sound defense for such practices which if we're honest are more-oft action with the ignorance of the general populace.

I'm also curious of your assertion "that almost every piece of software on any type of mobile device has Google Analytics inserted into it right?". Do you have to source for this claim. I'm not doubting that many mobile apps send back statistics/data in some form, just more curious that "almost every" one uses GA?
It's stated in the TOS and if people read them more often they wouldn't be "the ignorant general populace". If you read through the TOS for various pieces of software you use they'll likely all have clauses in there very similar to Kobo's.

As for my assertion I work in the mobile application industry and it's standard practice. Heck, most if not all websites use GA too as that was what it was originally developed for.
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Old 01-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunchtray View Post
It's stated in the TOS and if people read them more often they wouldn't be "the ignorant general populace". If you read through the TOS for various pieces of software you use they'll likely all have clauses in there very similar to Kobo's.

As for my assertion I work in the mobile application industry and it's standard practice. Heck, most if not all websites use GA too as that was what it was originally developed for.
I don't deny that it is potentially in the TOS, but really the the way the language is couched (with all its vagueness and breadth) is it any wonder the general public has given up, not to mention the damn things change without any notice. Even the Kobo one is so broad with items like "other information", nor is the definition of Kobo Service clear in it's implication that it applies to the Kobo devices themselves - "Kobo's website, mobile applications, web applications or "widgets", and other applications". Really at the end of the day TOS, EULA's and other such vehicles are not for the benefit of the enduser/customer but legal devices that protect the business in question. Many people are aware of the ineffectiveness of such forms of contract/communication, and even the EU acknowledged such in their recent dealings with facebook. As I said I'm pragmatic and recognise that there is an unspoken trade that occurs when using many services, but I don't agree that saying everyone does it this way is an argument for good practise.

Many of the better services do give one an option for participation in any data collection that may make their service better, frankly I feel this is a preferable approach.

Anyway this is likely not the right place to go into extensive discussion.

With regards to you GA statement I'm still somewhat surprised (and honestly a little sceptical) of you assertion of it breadth of use ("pretty much every mobile app developer"). I don't work in the industry directly (never did for mob. apps) myself, but chatting to some software dev. buddies who do they didn't indicate that the use of GA was the norm. Maybe it is more-so in Android development as they work in iOS themselves? I do acknowledge that it's rather widely used on the web, though even there I would be interested in what percentage of the web used the service, probably a less than I think.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:30 PM   #19
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Thanks for the useful info novou.

Cheers
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Old 01-15-2012, 04:14 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Lunchtray View Post
It's stated in the TOS and if people read them more often they wouldn't be "the ignorant general populace".
This.

My university uses Turnitin.com to check for plagiarism. Each student had to create an account and accept a ToS so that we could submit our papers to the professors (via Turnitin) to be marked. The ToS for turnitin states that any papers submitted through them become the intellectual property of turnitin and they are allowed to use the papers in any way they see fit, including to make money or expand on your ideas. The ToS also states that students are waiving the right to sue for copyright infringement and that papers submitted to turnitin.com may not be published in any journals (etc) without the approval of turnitin.com.

Anyone else have a BS detector going off? I protested this to one of my professors and he outright accused me of plagiarism even though it was the third day of the semester. Several other universities have banned the use of turnitin.com because of student protests, but Wilfrid Laurier is being stubborn about this. I bet they get paid by turnitin.com to use their services.

Anyways, that's just one ToS horror story. (If anyone here is a gamer, you may also be familiar with EA's blunder where they state their Origin software will collect ALL the data from your PC). Since then I've always read them.
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Old 01-15-2012, 09:38 AM   #21
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This.
Anyways, that's just one ToS horror story. (If anyone here is a gamer, you may also be familiar with EA's blunder where they state their Origin software will collect ALL the data from your PC). Since then I've always read them.
My friend would not buy Battlefield 3 for PC for this very reason.
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:24 AM   #22
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Question - is there likely any danger in using your patch on the Kobo Glo? Is it firmware independent?
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:25 PM   #23
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Question - is there likely any danger in using your patch on the Kobo Glo? Is it firmware independent?
There should be no problem using this on the Glo. All it does is replace the /etc/hosts file, which doesn't depend on any specific firmware version.
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Old 01-01-2014, 11:10 PM   #24
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Does Kobo track stuff on Glo too? I am sorry to admit that this is a crazy thing to do without user participation. I feel decieved to be honest. If I did not see this thread by accident I would have never known about. At this point I have a negative view of Kobo unfortunately.
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Old 01-02-2014, 10:42 AM   #25
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My friend would not buy Battlefield 3 for PC for this very reason.
On top of it, it was revealed recently that NSA was planting fake goverment agent players in games to collect data about players en masse.
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:19 AM   #26
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Does Kobo track stuff on Glo too?
I am interested in this question too -- and does the OP host file solution work on the glo?
Thanks
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Old 01-03-2014, 06:08 PM   #27
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The firmware for all the current Kobo e-ink devices is basically the same. That means that if Kobo is tracking stuff for one, then it is tracking for all of them. The original post is two years old, it might still work or Kobo might have changed things. Personally, it is not an area that I have looked at.
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