Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Software > Calibre > Conversion

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-21-2011, 05:53 PM   #1
Rhialto
Enthusiast
Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Rhialto ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Rhialto's Avatar
 
Posts: 49
Karma: 505676
Join Date: Aug 2011
Device: iPad
KF8 conversion and support in Calibre?

As you will see from a long thread in News and a shorter thread in the Kindle forum, Amazon has announced a new ebook format called .KF8 to compete with the upcoming epub3. The Kindle fire will have KF8 support.

Will it take long for calibre to support this new format? Are there any implications for those of us like me who currently download .mobi and .epub files, interconvert and manage them in Calibre and read them on Kindles and on iPad?
Rhialto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 06:02 PM   #2
JSWolf
Resident Curmudgeon
JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JSWolf ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JSWolf's Avatar
 
Posts: 37,627
Karma: 18475502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts
Device: Sony Reader PRS-650, iPad, nook STR
There is no way to know how long it will take. It depends on how long it takes to get the DRM stripped and the format reverse engineered.
JSWolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 07:10 PM   #3
wallcraft
reader
wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.wallcraft ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
wallcraft's Avatar
 
Posts: 6,979
Karma: 5183568
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Mississippi, USA
Device: Kindle 3 and Fire
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
It depends on how long it takes to get the DRM stripped and the format reverse engineered.
The DRM stripping is important, but it is separate from reverse engineering the format which won't have to wait for DRM stripping. Samples from the Kindle store don't have DRM, and there will presumably be DRM-free KF8's just as there are DRM-free AZW's.
wallcraft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 07:23 PM   #4
user_none
Sigil & calibre developer
user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.user_none ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
user_none's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,460
Karma: 986493
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Florida, USA
Device: Nook STR
Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
The DRM stripping is important, but it is separate from reverse engineering the format which won't have to wait for DRM stripping. Samples from the Kindle store don't have DRM, and there will presumably be DRM-free KF8's just as there are DRM-free AZW's.
I don't think I've ever seen a DRM free TPZ...
user_none is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2011, 09:32 PM   #5
kovidgoyal
creator of calibre
kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kovidgoyal ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
kovidgoyal's Avatar
 
Posts: 26,109
Karma: 5101571
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Mumbai, India
Device: Various
It's impossible to guess how long reverse engineering a format is likely to take based on the rather vague an incomplete information Amazon has released.

Since the use of KF8 is completely optional with Kindles, it shouldn't impact anything as far as calibre is concerned.
kovidgoyal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2011, 01:21 AM   #6
JeremyR
Guru
JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JeremyR's Avatar
 
Posts: 969
Karma: 2458216
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St. Louis
Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+
Obviously it would only be a one way conversion, but presumably someone could make a plugin that would invoke Kindlegen 2.0 (I believe someone did that with the first one to make azw files, not just mobi)
JeremyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2011, 08:48 PM   #7
nickredding
onlinenewsreader.net
nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'nickredding knows the difference between 'who' and 'whom'
 
Posts: 320
Karma: 10143
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Phoenix, AZ & Victoria, BC
Device: Kindle 3, Kindle Fire, IPad3, iPhone4, Playbook, HTC Inspire
Converting existing books/recipes to KF8 format won't be all that interesting since presumably the MOBI format will continue to be supported on the new generation devices as well as KF8, and the documents won't look any different. What is interesting is the potential to significantly enhance recipe formatting, taking advantage of the KF8 HTML5/CSS3 capabilities.
nickredding is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:25 PM   #8
jimad
Connoisseur
jimad is on a distinguished road
 
Posts: 53
Karma: 52
Join Date: Apr 2008
Device: Kindle
Quote:
Originally Posted by nickredding View Post
Converting existing books/recipes to KF8 format won't be all that interesting since presumably the MOBI format will continue to be supported on the new generation devices as well as KF8, and the documents won't look any different. What is interesting is the potential to significantly enhance recipe formatting, taking advantage of the KF8 HTML5/CSS3 capabilities.
I don't understand this statement. I have a Kindle Fire, and I have previous versions of the Kindle, and I have the new kf8 kindlegen, and the documents I create certainly do look different, with kf8 and Kindle Fire generally rendering much more reasonably. Also converting an existing EPUB to KF8 is much more likely to be successful that when using the previous kindlegen output MOBI7. ?
jimad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-13-2012, 09:33 PM   #9
theducks
Grand Sorcerer
theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
theducks's Avatar
 
Posts: 14,839
Karma: 5654321
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: (The original) Silicon Valley, USA
Device: Galaxy Tab 2, Astak Pocket Pro, K4NT
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimad View Post
I don't understand this statement. I have a Kindle Fire, and I have previous versions of the Kindle, and I have the new kf8 kindlegen, and the documents I create certainly do look different, with kf8 and Kindle Fire generally rendering much more reasonably. Also converting an existing EPUB to KF8 is much more likely to be successful that when using the previous kindlegen output MOBI7. ?
If the styling is not there (because Mobi did not support) in the original, you can't pull an 'improvement' out of thin air.

BTW Give the crew a break. KF8 has been in the wild only a few days.

Of course, you are free to write the new plugin and submit it soonest
theducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 10:22 AM   #10
KevinH
Guru
KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 953
Karma: 410248
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: many
Hi,

If you check out the end of the New Mobi Decoder thread in the Mobi forum there already exists a python tool that will unpack KF8 mobis and convert them to epub. So it would be easy to make a stop gap plugin that that imports an epub when given a KF8 mobi as input.

That said, the format is not nearly reverse engineered enough to have it create KF8 mobis. For example, there are sometimes multiple DATP records that seem to be needed (but that we have not figured out yet) as well as FDST records that control how the rawml is split up, and three new index types, one for skeleton files, one for divs or fragments, and one for guide elements. These can not be skipped. Amazon has even added metadata elements to the old Mobi part of the file including a metadata 121 that that stores the section number of the BOUNDARY section, etc. And I am sure there is much more that needs to be looked at.

The problem is you would simply be better off grabbing the kindlegensrc.zip record SRCS section and using it instead with Calibre.

So people with nodrm mobis created by the new Kindlegen would be better to run the new unpacker and use the kindlegensrc.zip (typically an epub renamed) and working from there with Sigil and Calibre.

I would be happy to help with answering questions about the code in mobi_unpacker.py (and its support files) if any wants it.

KevinH
KevinH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2012, 10:32 AM   #11
pdurrant
The Ghost Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 32,154
Karma: 88613766
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
The next interesting thing that needs to be done is to find some more KF8 samples that have been downloaded from the Kindle store for the Kindle Fire, and see if Amazon has stripped out the mobi section, as they do for the SRCS section. I suspect that they will be doing this.

All this reverse engineering will become a lot easier once the Kindle for Mac and Kindle for PC are updated to handle KF8 file, both for ease of downloading samples from Amazon, and possible debugger use.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #12
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,255
Karma: 42123822
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
The next interesting thing that needs to be done is to find some more KF8 samples that have been downloaded from the Kindle store for the Kindle Fire, and see if Amazon has stripped out the mobi section, as they do for the SRCS section. I suspect that they will be doing this.
I'm probably a bit off-topic here, but...
I'm hoping Amazon allows the average content creator to upload separate MOBI and KF8 files for their books at some point. There's just too many irreconcilable differences between the KF8 and MOBI content built from the exact same source, IMO. Too many situations where making the KF8 really shine, will really botch up the fall-back mobi.

If not, the creative crowd may have to come up with a tool to stitch together an optimized MOBI with an optimized KF8 for uploading.

I'm already experiencing situations where the compromise to "make it work" for both formats results in two inferior products.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 10:28 AM   #13
pdurrant
The Ghost Mouse
pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pdurrant ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pdurrant's Avatar
 
Posts: 32,154
Karma: 88613766
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Norfolk, England
Device: NOOK ST GlowLight
Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I'm probably a bit off-topic here, but...
I'm hoping Amazon allows the average content creator to upload separate MOBI and KF8 files for their books at some point. There's just too many irreconcilable differences between the KF8 and MOBI content built from the exact same source, IMO. Too many situations where making the KF8 really shine, will really botch up the fall-back mobi.

If not, the creative crowd may have to come up with a tool to stitch together an optimized MOBI with an optimized KF8 for uploading.

I'm already experiencing situations where the compromise to "make it work" for both formats results in two inferior products.
It is possible to specify different CSS for generating the Mobi and the KF8, which might be sufficient.
pdurrant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 11:05 AM   #14
DiapDealer
Grand Sorcerer
DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.DiapDealer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
DiapDealer's Avatar
 
Posts: 9,255
Karma: 42123822
Join Date: Jan 2010
Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD
Quote:
It is possible to specify different CSS for generating the Mobi and the KF8, which might be sufficient.
Well that's a huge start, at least... I obviously didn't read far enough.
DiapDealer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2012, 11:26 AM   #15
KevinH
Guru
KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.KevinH ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 953
Karma: 410248
Join Date: Nov 2009
Device: many
Hi Paul,

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdurrant View Post
The next interesting thing that needs to be done is to find some more KF8 samples that have been downloaded from the Kindle store for the Kindle Fire, and see if Amazon has stripped out the mobi section, as they do for the SRCS section. I suspect that they will be doing this.
I agree with you. Since the DRM on each mobi ebook is tied specifically to the exact hardware and user, it would make no sense to give both when the DRM will only allow it to work on one specific device anyway.

Has no one been able to buy and download a KF8 file yet? (KF's are not available in Canada). It would be interesting to see what they are doing with the SRCS and older versus KF8 parts of the mobi.

KevinH
KevinH is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Kindle format: KF8 Hatgirl News 146 10-25-2011 10:31 AM
Nook support in Calibre and conversion from Kindle to Nook Color? doowopper Devices 4 04-27-2011 04:21 PM
when will calibre support vector graphics in pdf to epub conversion smith9 Calibre 5 11-13-2010 05:03 AM
Calibre V0.6.13 adds support for LRF conversion Alexander Turcic Calibre 3 09-20-2009 12:27 PM
Any Chance Calibre Will Support Direct DOC Conversion? sirbruce Calibre 1 03-22-2009 05:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:05 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.