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Old 12-17-2011, 07:51 AM   #61
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I think your sentiment is well and good for advanced-knowledge users/readers. You and HarryT don't worry much about DRM because you can strip it. Kudos to you.

But what about the millions of people who haven't got a clue, don't care to have a clue, and don't want to have to strip DRM. I can't imagine my 89-year-old father learning to strip DRM when it was even a struggle to get him to "master" the reading device to begin with. What most readers want is the book experience -- that is, they want to buy a book at the store of their choice, read it on the device of their choice, change devices without a hassle, and still be able to read the book on their new device.

What most consumers want is the DVD experience -- a single format that all film production companies use that is playable on the DVD player they own now and on the one they will own next year. Ask consumers, and few will be able to tell you anything at all about the DVD's copy protection scheme or how to circumvent it. All they want to know and do is take the DVD and put in the DVD player -- regardless of player brand -- press a button and watch the film on the TV of their choice (brand makes no difference).

In the print world, there is a level playing field on which all booksellers compete. Even on that field, Amazon was able to capture a very signifcant percentage of the market. But the ebook field is not a level playing field and Amazon does not want to compete on a level playing field. I think Amazon sees ebooks as a way to leverage consumers into doing more shopping at Amazon for non-book items, which is why it is willing to stand alone when it comes to DRM. In these early years of ebooks, Amazon can get away with its stance; I think in another 5 to 10 years, it may not be able to do so.
I do agree with you. I am all for DRM free, however, I don't believe a "DRM free" scheme is in the cards for us in the near future. So I am settling for the next best thing. And coming back to your 89 year old father, he can't do it himself. But if someone installs Calibre with the necessary plugins he might well be able to do it. Though I don't think he will be shopping around on all different sites for ebooks? He will probably stay with one site, Amazon arguably being the easiest.
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:53 AM   #62
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Though I don't think he will be shopping around on all different sites for ebooks? He will probably stay with one site, Amazon arguably being the easiest.
That's precisely why DRM is a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of eBook readers. They buy a reader, and shop at the store associated with the reading device. Kindle owners buy at Amazon, nook owners buy at B&N, Kobo owners buy at Kobo. Most of those people have probably never even heard of "DRM".
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Old 12-17-2011, 07:58 AM   #63
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Even Amazon sold DRMed eBooks before Sony.
Goodness, Amazon did something before Sony? Amazing.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:01 AM   #64
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That's precisely why DRM is a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of eBook readers. They buy a reader, and shop at the store associated with the reading device. Kindle owners buy at Amazon, nook owners buy at B&N, Kobo owners buy at Kobo. Most of those people have probably never even heard of "DRM".
People with ADE based readers have to know of DRM because they have to authorize their readers. So they are one up on a lot of Kindle users who don't know about DRM. The ePub crowd is going to be more informed and better able to make correct decisions on what is best for them. The Kindle crowd is not going to make proper decisions based on what's best for them and they will end up in a cage built by Amazon. They won't know enough about DRM and they won't be stripping/converting. So if they someday decide to forgot the Kindle for a different reader, they won't be able to take their purchases with them. They will be locked in the Amazon cage.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:02 AM   #65
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Goodness, Amazon did something before Sony? Amazing.
Yep, and Amazon dumped eBooks too pissing off a lot of people who needed to download some of them again in order to update the DRM.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:18 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
People with ADE based readers have to know of DRM because they have to authorize their readers. So they are one up on a lot of Kindle users who don't know about DRM. The ePub crowd is going to be more informed and better able to make correct decisions on what is best for them. The Kindle crowd is not going to make proper decisions based on what's best for them and they will end up in a cage built by Amazon. They won't know enough about DRM and they won't be stripping/converting. So if they someday decide to forgot the Kindle for a different reader, they won't be able to take their purchases with them. They will be locked in the Amazon cage.
So all the millions of Amazon customers don't know how to make correct decisions? And unfortunately they don't even know about the smart people who want to help them.
Maybe they are just enjoying the reading experience and ease of access to ebooks - they probably have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:22 AM   #67
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So all the millions of Amazon customers don't know how to make correct decisions? And unfortunately they don't even know about the smart people who want to help them.
Maybe they are just enjoying the reading experience and ease of access to ebooks - they probably have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
Haven't you realised yet that the one unforgivable problem that the Kindle has (in Jon's worldview) is that it doesn't say "SONY" on it?
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:28 AM   #68
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What do you mean when you say that Amazon no longer notes DRM status? AFAIK, they never did this explicitly. On DRM free books, they say something like: "simultaneous device usage limit: unlimited". Do they no longer do this in France?

Also, how does the marking scheme work? If each book must be customized (property of John Doe), then I agree that it is an interesting alternative to traditional DRM, but lack of support for such a program could easily be due to technical reasons (inability to publish custom books for each buyer) and not due to any business stance/strategy.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:43 AM   #69
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On DRM free books, they say something like: "simultaneous device usage limit: unlimited". Do they no longer do this in France?
That's exactly what the OP means. We in the US and Canada (and probably others, I don't mean to exclude) have a few clues in Amazon's Product Description that will indicate that a book might be DRM free. Those same indicators don't exist at Amazon.fr... or so I'm told.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:45 AM   #70
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That's exactly what the OP means. We in the US and Canada (and probably others, I don't mean to exclude) have a few clues in Amazon's Product Description that will indicate that a book might be DRM free. Those same indicators don't exist at Amazon.fr... or so I'm told.
They've never existed at Amazon UK, either.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:49 AM   #71
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They've never existed at Amazon UK, either.
And yet you've managed to soldier on despite that handicap?

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Old 12-17-2011, 08:50 AM   #72
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And yet you've managed to soldier on despite that handicap?
Somehow, yes. I buy my 4-5 Kindle books a week, even with this precipitous hurdle in my path.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:27 AM   #73
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Sorry, but none of this has anything to do with the fact that Sony came out with two eink reader before Amazon so Sony is the one who should get the thanks, not Amazon.
Sony came out with the first eInk reader.. sure.. but Amazon made the eReader mainstream. Prior to the Kindle it was a very niche product. Now, I think the Amazon Kindle for $79 is the tipping point for eReaders and eBooks...

So, yes, Amazon deserves much credit for bringing eBooks to the mainstream... something Sony was unable to do.

BOb
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:42 AM   #74
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They've never existed at Amazon UK, either.
Yes they do. E.g. My version of Kim, which has "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" and Penguin's version, which does not.

If you don't see "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the Product details section at Amazon UK, then it has DRM.

Last edited by pdurrant; 12-17-2011 at 04:30 PM. Reason: typo fixing. In case someone tries to search on "Similtaneous". Whoops.
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Old 12-17-2011, 11:43 AM   #75
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Yes they do. E.g. My version of Kim, which has "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" and Penguin's version, which does not.

If you don't see "Simultaneous Device Usage: Unlimited" in the Product details section at Amazon UK, then it has DRM.
My apologies - can't say I've ever noticed that!

Last edited by pdurrant; 12-17-2011 at 04:30 PM. Reason: fixing typo in quote
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