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Old 10-08-2011, 01:55 AM   #31
djulian
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I don't know how all this works, but if my competitor was only able to sell a product electronically, and I was only able to sell it physically, I think I'd keep selling it physically rather than giving up all together. Maybe I misunderstood the problem here?

Also, why would indie bookstores refuse to stock books published by Amazon's imprint? Are they worried that Amazon is putting them out of business, so they might as well reduce their customer appeal in the meantime? It seems like a bad business decision among a host of not-great options.
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Old 10-08-2011, 02:27 AM   #32
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I don't care if they go beg for money on the street instead of write books. If they want to make exclusive deals that are not good for the customer, they don't deserve to sell. Anyone who signs an exclusive deal is not doing so for the good of customers. Amazon is the worst one for this. If B&N is also doing it, then that's just as bad. But really, when is exclusive good for everyone who reads? It's not. Not ever.
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:05 AM   #33
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imo this is childish as hell of b&n. they took their toys and went home so their customers get nothing now. feel how you want about amazon but the b&n response was utterly juvenile, especially over a deal with an expiration date.
I think that the point is made by Jeremy:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Do comic book fans even buy comics from B&N? Every time I go in there, there's always a few reading them, but I've never see one actually buy them.

That's the trouble with a medium that can be read in 15 minutes
I would like to add that they can go in B&N, look at the comics and order the e-version from Amazon. What should B&N do if a customer asks if they can get the digital version? Reply with: we don't have it because Amazon won't let us?
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Old 10-08-2011, 04:23 AM   #34
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I don't know how all this works, but if my competitor was only able to sell a product electronically, and I was only able to sell it physically, I think I'd keep selling it physically rather than giving up all together. Maybe I misunderstood the problem here?
The goal is of course not to make this situation permanent. B&N's goal is to make DC change their mind. To me it seems a rational action to stop selling the paper version given this goal.
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Old 10-08-2011, 05:53 AM   #35
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Cool Gimme paper every time....

Comics in digital isn't the same animal, is it ?
It's a sanitized, executive toy, "don't get yer hands dirty" version !

There's no crappy paper that, somehow, lasts through all sorts of hard treatment, fits in any pocket folded any way you like, you can read surreptitiously in church, smells when damp but keeps head dry in rain, handy for swatting flies or training dogs, use in the loo or start the fire in extremis,and so on, and on.......
And you can't trade a download for a bag of sweets, can you - except with a geek, of course.......

No, give me p-versions every time.

Cap'n Marvel to Desperate Dan, all comics in paper, but summink else on a pristine screen.....
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:39 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Do comic book fans even buy comics from B&N? Every time I go in there, there's always a few reading them, but I've never see one actually buy them.

That's the trouble with a medium that can be read in 15 minutes
why not just not let the people read and have it in a plastic bag instead? sorry if it sounds like a stupid question. it might be a cultural thing
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Old 10-08-2011, 09:58 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by wyndslash View Post
why not just not let the people read and have it in a plastic bag instead? sorry if it sounds like a stupid question. it might be a cultural thing
Its a cultural thing. Selling this month's comics in bags is really gauche, and will actually make you lose customers. You aren't really supposed to bag them until they get folded into the big box o' back issues.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:20 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeremyR View Post
Do comic book fans even buy comics from B&N? Every time I go in there, there's always a few reading them, but I've never see one actually buy them.

That's the trouble with a medium that can be read in 15 minutes
We went to B&N when looking for comic books for our eldest. We figured they'd have more "child-friendly" versions. As it turned out we ended up going to a comic book shop an hour away becuase it carried a wider variety and the proprietor knew just what we were looking for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tompe View Post
The goal is of course not to make this situation permanent. B&N's goal is to make DC change their mind. To me it seems a rational action to stop selling the paper version given this goal.
B&N might get DC to change their mind eventually, but in the meantime, B&N is sending people to the competition. If a customer asks for a digital copy, the answer is "I'm sorry we do not carry them at this time". Then answer any follow up questions appropriately. It really isn't that hard.
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Old 10-08-2011, 10:42 AM   #39
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imo the main problem is that B&N may not currently have the muscle to make that punishment hurt. Brick and mortar stores aren't exactly wielding lots of clout right now.

Worse yet, what if it doesn't do anything but annoy DC, and they respond by making that exclusivity permanent? I doubt that will happen, but I don't think B&N is in a position right now to be provoking suppliers.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:03 AM   #40
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Oops, I missed this and posted a dup thread of sorts. I guess they can whine and moan and pulls sales off the shelves if they want.

Remember Amazon did the same when the Agency Price Fixing started before they knuckled under.

Competition is tough.....
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:12 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Abtacha View Post
So Brick&Mortar stores that are already struggling to stay in business in the USA (as far as I've read) are handing Customers over to Amazon because they don't want to stock Books published by Amazon?
No, the problem is not books published by Amazon; the problem is books that are exclusively sold by Amazon for a period of time. B&N is trying to tell publishers that if you give Amazon exclusive rights to a book, B&N will not stock at its B&M stores your titles.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:16 AM   #42
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The only thing B&N did was remove the DC comics from its shelves. You can still buy them from BN.com or order them at the store for direct delivery to your home. It is only shelf space that is being denied.
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Old 10-08-2011, 11:44 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frahse View Post
So, since Amazon doesn't have a ineffective DRM they are the consumer's enemy?
If B&N and Amazon both want to sell my books, do I want them to have half baked DRM. Should I choose the weakest DRM and go with the Seller who uses that. Should I choose the weakest company in general who will make mistakes in advertising, presenting, shipping, and billing, with all these mistakes eventually trickling down to my small share of the profit. No.
An Author and a Publisher will choose the best Company, and if he/she doesn't want copy protection he/she will choose "no copy protection."

Don't fault Amazon because it is a competent business.

Don't fault a bank because it chooses to have a good vault, and the best security. I am sure you won't if it has your money.

Do we see the authors that are badmouthing Amazon and claiming to be one with the consumers putting their books online for downloading for say, one half the going price, with a honor system where you can send them payment by PayPal or Credit card, or pay them later when you get the cash?

Interesting... so as an author you would prefer Amazon's shackles, as that
choice may give you the best return? You would prefer a "protected" market
to an "open" one for your books? That approach sounds like you view your
stories as a songwriter might view his music, where he must obtain an exclusive
contract with a "record company", to sell the music. All other options paying
much less. Well, you may have a point, from your point of view.

I am very much a free market capitalist and expect that all parties will eventually
do what is in their best interest. That also includes the ebook purchaser, and as
one of those, I find what Amazon is attempting, to be against my best interest.
As an author you might consider that if it becomes the case that I can no longer
make ebooks purchased from Amazon readable on my devices, I will not be able to
buy your ebooks. If you are satisfied that there are enough Kindle users, and you
need not sell your books to those who use other ereading devices, that is your choice.

As to which companies/company you choose, why would you want to choose to limit
the outlets for your product, to only one? You seem to be saying that Amazon's deal
is the better one, for you, at this time. I have no problem with that. I hope that you
have no problem with the fact that I will not be able to buy your ebook/s then.

Luck;
Ken

Last edited by Ken Maltby; 10-08-2011 at 11:47 AM.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Maltby View Post
Interesting... so as an author you would prefer Amazon's shackles, as that
choice may give you the best return? You would prefer a "protected" market
to an "open" one for your books? That approach sounds like you view your
stories as a songwriter might view his music, where he must obtain an exclusive
contract with a "record company", to sell the music. All other options paying
much less. Well, you may have a point, from your point of view.

I am very much a free market capitalist and expect that all parties will eventually
do what is in their best interest. That also includes the ebook purchaser, and as
one of those, I find what Amazon is attempting, to be against my best interest.
As an author you might consider that if it becomes the case that I can no longer
make ebooks purchased from Amazon readable on my devices, I will not be able to
buy your ebooks. If you are satisfied that there are enough Kindle users, and you
need not sell your books to those who use other ereading devices, that is your choice.

As to which companies/company you choose, why would you want to choose to limit
the outlets for your product, to only one? You seem to be saying that Amazon's deal
is the better one, for you, at this time. I have no problem with that. I hope that you
have no problem with the fact that I will not be able to buy your ebook/s then.

Luck;
Ken
You are not really addressing my points. I get the same deal either way at the onset, but from your own words, I feel that you like sellers, that because of poor product control, eventually allow the product to be given away. It is that model that pressures me to be only an occasional author and cuts down on my output.

Those kinds of sellers in my eyes aren't of much help to me because after the initial sale, my product is easy to give away.

It is an inherent problem with the electronic market, and you are right to compare it to music. It is destructive.

I would love to be big enough to be able to demand exclusiveness.
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Old 10-08-2011, 12:28 PM   #45
RDaneel54
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Originally Posted by kennyc View Post
Oops, I missed this and posted a dup thread of sorts. I guess they can whine and moan and pulls sales off the shelves if they want.

Remember Amazon did the same when the Agency Price Fixing started before they knuckled under.

Competition is tough.....
Yeah, I posted there. Here's what I said:

So will they restock in 4 months after the exclusive deal is up? Wonder if they'll have any DC comic book customers then?

Are they going to stop selling Harry Potter when Pottermore goes up, too?
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