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Old 10-07-2011, 12:04 AM   #16
pidgeon92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geoffwood View Post
I thought the iRiver Story HD had am improved screen. 1024x768 versus the normal 800x600.
Perhaps so.... But as Engadget states:

Quote:
The result is undeniably sharp, but given the fact that most readers will be using the device primarily to view pages comprised entirely of text, it's hard to imagine that making a huge difference in the lives of most of its users.
They also noted other issues with the screen at the end of their review.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:48 AM   #17
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What if all this K3 vs K4 screen is just another result of imperfection of human eyes. Casing color is important element in this equation. Look at this example:

Adelson’s “Checker-shadow illusion”
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:36 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XisiX View Post
What if all this K3 vs K4 screen is just another result of imperfection of human eyes. Casing color is important element in this equation. Look at this example:

Adelson’s “Checker-shadow illusion”
It's what looks good to you that really counts. My first K4 has issues I mean white ghosting. I've never had a e-ink reader that did that. The new one ghosts like any other E-Ink reader. I like my new K4 but I was just reading on Amazon the reviews and there is several who had the same problem I did. Some got a replacement and is happy with the new one and some returned it and is waiting on the touch.

I think there is a bad batch out there and I was just lucky enough to get one but the second one is pretty good and I like it.
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Old 10-07-2011, 08:57 AM   #19
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I've had the kindle 3, nook st, and Sony t1 so I have seen side by side how "the same screen" can be different from one another. I've only seen the kindle 4 in stores (unlike all the others I listed), but it did seem less impressive than my newer kindle 3, screen wise anyway.

The blacks just pop on the kindle 3, and are very well defined.
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Old 10-07-2011, 10:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David58117 View Post
I've had the kindle 3, nook st, and Sony t1 so I have seen side by side how "the same screen" can be different from one another. I've only seen the kindle 4 in stores (unlike all the others I listed), but it did seem less impressive than my newer kindle 3, screen wise anyway.

The blacks just pop on the kindle 3, and are very well defined.
I showed that even among Kindle Keyboard there are differences in the screen when I posted a picture of my Kindle Keyboard vs. my wife's Kindle Keyboard. It's all about the manufacturing of the screens.
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Old 10-07-2011, 12:19 PM   #21
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My first K3 was quite hard to read in dull daylight. I checked display models in several stores but under bright store light they all looked the same. I finally found someone locally with a Kindle and we compared hers and mine in her sitting room, out of direct light. Hers was easy to read, mine wasn't and its background had a much bluer tone.

Amazon sent me another one; in my office - which is very light with tall windows to either side of me - the displays seemed identical. Out of direct daylight, there was a significant difference and I sent the first one back.

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Old 10-07-2011, 01:29 PM   #22
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Doesn't seem like it.

from toms hardware review:

"We called up E Ink Corporation to ask if this was a batch-related issue, and was told that this is most likely due to Amazon choosing a particular grade of display panels. So, while the new Kindle comes at a lower price, the company is probably cutting its costs as well by using a slightly cheaper display."
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Old 10-07-2011, 01:48 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by log View Post
Doesn't seem like it.

from toms hardware review:

"We called up E Ink Corporation to ask if this was a batch-related issue, and was told that this is most likely due to Amazon choosing a particular grade of display panels. So, while the new Kindle comes at a lower price, the company is probably cutting its costs as well by using a slightly cheaper display."
The Pearl screen has been produced for Kindles for over a year now. The cost to produce those same pearl screens would be far less today then it was 1 year ago, so it's not a case of the new Kindles being cheaper due to a "particular grade of display" but the fact that that cost to mass produce Pearl screens is much lower now given the millions that have already been made for Kindles, Nooks, Kobos and Sony eReaders.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:15 PM   #24
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I seem to remember something being said at the announcement that they improved the display algorithms [perhaps font rendering? eink controller firmware?] in some way... I can't seem to find it now, but perhaps that could account for some of the differences?

I can't put my finger on it, but there does seem to be a notable difference between the way that the Kindle, Nook, and Sony (all using Perl displays) write their text to the screen, and no matter which font I select on the Nook/Sony I still have an unexplained subjective feeling that the Kindle 3 rendering is easier (for me) to read. I haven't seen a Kindle 4 yet, so I can't comment on them.
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Old 10-07-2011, 02:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ren41 View Post
My first K3 was quite hard to read in dull daylight. I checked display models in several stores but under bright store light they all looked the same. I finally found someone locally with a Kindle and we compared hers and mine in her sitting room, out of direct light. Hers was easy to read, mine wasn't and its background had a much bluer tone.

Amazon sent me another one; in my office - which is very light with tall windows to either side of me - the displays seemed identical. Out of direct daylight, there was a significant difference and I sent the first one back.

ren
They do seem to vary and you just gotta keep trying till you get one you are satisfy with. We are lucky Amazon is so good in making sure we like out Kindles.

I was lucky my first K3 is wonderful so I have no idea till this week that others wasn't as good as mine. I've learned alot this week. I don't read mine in sunlight and my living quarters do not have bright lights so I love my K3 I can read without much light and I am hoping I can do the same with my K4.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:31 PM   #26
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Some spectro reading data

Quote:
Originally Posted by log View Post
Doesn't seem like it.

from toms hardware review:

"We called up E Ink Corporation to ask if this was a batch-related issue, and was told that this is most likely due to Amazon choosing a particular grade of display panels. So, while the new Kindle comes at a lower price, the company is probably cutting its costs as well by using a slightly cheaper display."
Interesting article, I don't have the K3 but since they also mentioned Nook STR(which I still have atm), I assume the K3 & Nook have the same screen.

I did some brief test just now by loading a pure black & pure white(blank) page on to each reader, then used my X-Rite i1 spectrophotometer to measure each of its black & white color data, I don't find the black "a little darker" on the Nook STR, in fact, the K4's black is darker.

Below are the comparison image I've created using photoshop based on the L*a*b reading of the spectrophotometer, then converted to sRGB color space:

If it says anything, as you can see(if your monitor can differentiate the differences) that the black on the Kindle NT is actually darker. And the contrast on the K4 between the darkest and whitest is actually slightly greater than the Nook STR is capable off( 48.8 vs 46.8 for Delta E CIE2000 & 52.5 vs 49.7 for Luminosity).

The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure black between the two devices is 1.6.
The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure white(blank) between the two devices is 1.0.

To put the above differences in context for people who're not familiar with those readings, the smallest difference human eyes can detect is 1.0.

So with all other variables included such as manufacture unit to unit tolerance, instrument & display supply variance, the screen between the two are pretty much the same in terms of hardware black & white display capability.

p.s. With no disrespect to Tom's hardware, where there're full of experts smarter than me, IMHO using a microscope to take a picture of the screen is not the most accurate way to evaluate the shadow/light differences, a spectrophotometer is much more reliable.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:35 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinew View Post
Interesting article, I don't have the K3 but since they also mentioned Nook STR(which I still have atm), I assume the K3 & Nook have the same screen.

I did some brief test just now by loading a pure black & pure white(blank) page on to each reader, then used my X-Rite i1 spectrophotometer to measure each of its black & white color data, I don't find the black "a little darker" on the Nook STR, in fact, the K4's black is darker.

Below are the comparison image I've created using photoshop based on the L*a*b reading of the spectrophotometer, then converted to sRGB color space:

If it says anything, as you can see(if your monitor can differentiate the differences) that the black on the Kindle NT is actually darker. And the contrast on the K4 between the darkest and whitest is actually slightly greater than the Nook STR is capable off( 48.8 vs 46.8 for Delta E CIE2000 & 52.5 vs 49.7 for Luminosity).

The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure black between the two devices is 1.6.
The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure white(blank) between the two devices is 1.0.

To put the above differences in context for people who're not familiar with those readings, the smallest difference human eyes can detect is 1.0.

So with all other variables included such as manufacture unit to unit tolerance, instrument & display supply variance, the screen between the two are pretty much the same in terms of hardware black & white display capability.

p.s. With no disrespect to Tom's hardware, where there're full of experts smarter than me, IMHO using a microscope to take a picture of the screen is not the most accurate way to evaluate the shadow/light differences, a spectrophotometer is much more reliable.

I have no idea what you just did or said but it looks impressive.
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Old 10-07-2011, 04:39 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinew View Post
Interesting article, I don't have the K3 but since they also mentioned Nook STR(which I still have atm), I assume the K3 & Nook have the same screen.

I did some brief test just now by loading a pure black & pure white(blank) page on to each reader, then used my X-Rite i1 spectrophotometer to measure each of its black & white color data, I don't find the black "a little darker" on the Nook STR, in fact, the K4's black is darker.

Below are the comparison image I've created using photoshop based on the L*a*b reading of the spectrophotometer, then converted to sRGB color space:

If it says anything, as you can see(if your monitor can differentiate the differences) that the black on the Kindle NT is actually darker. And the contrast on the K4 between the darkest and whitest is actually slightly greater than the Nook STR is capable off( 48.8 vs 46.8 for Delta E CIE2000 & 52.5 vs 49.7 for Luminosity).

The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure black between the two devices is 1.6.
The Delta E CIE2000 for the pure white(blank) between the two devices is 1.0.

To put the above differences in context for people who're not familiar with those readings, the smallest difference human eyes can detect is 1.0.

So with all other variables included such as manufacture unit to unit tolerance, instrument & display supply variance, the screen between the two are pretty much the same in terms of hardware black & white display capability.

p.s. With no disrespect to Tom's hardware, where there're full of experts smarter than me, IMHO using a microscope to take a picture of the screen is not the most accurate way to evaluate the shadow/light differences, a spectrophotometer is much more reliable.
I have heard people saying the Nook Simple Touch doesn't have as good as contrast as a Kindle. So I believe you.
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:10 PM   #29
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I have no idea what you just did or said but it looks impressive.


Ditto!
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Old 10-07-2011, 05:25 PM   #30
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