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Old 09-18-2011, 07:26 PM   #46
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Anyone remember the Ace books from the 60's with the bound in full color cigarette advertisements? When did Ace give up on this anyway? I know I used to tear them out and throw them away.

Ahhhhhh.... Those were the days!

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Old 09-18-2011, 07:34 PM   #47
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Anyone remember the Ace books from the 60's with the bound in full color cigarette advertisements? When did Ace give up on this anyway? I know I used to tear them out and throw them away.

Greg Weeks
I think a lot of folks here nostalgically dream of a past where there were never any filthy ads to sully the purity of the sacred novel reading experience. Of course , if you look at the past, you'll find that novels were published in serials in magazines that, by gum, had ads all over them- even the most sacred novels of the past.

Isaac Asimov's " Foundation"? Published in a magazine with ads in them.
Robert Heinlein's " If This Goes On?" Published in a magazine with ads in them.
Harry Harrison's "Deathworld?" Published- well, you get the idea .

Go back to the 19th Century, and you'll find that fusty classics like "Crime and Punishment" and " A Study in Scarlet" were originally published in magazines with ads. You might want to look at the cover of that magazine HERE.

Now, if people are viscerally opposed to ads in ebooks, well I understand that. But " I don't like ads in ebooks, no matter what!" is a long way from "Ads in ebooks are impossible" or even economically infeasible.

Well, anyway, let's remember that this is one IP lawyer's opinion. Lots of experts share his opinion, but still....
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Old 09-18-2011, 07:55 PM   #48
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Ahhhhhh.... Those were the days!

You know, I wish the old Ace Double concept- two short novels for the price of one- would come back again as in ebook form-even with a few ads sprinkled through them.

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Old 09-18-2011, 09:19 PM   #49
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It really depends on the magazine... and the book. Today I have magazines that I've collected since I was a teen... over 30 years of magazines that I still go back and reference for one thing or another. Whereas, in those 30 years, I've disposed of quite a few books.
No, you're right. But the example of Cosmo that was brought up isn't exactly, shall we say, Writer's Digest, Time, or National Geographic.
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Old 09-19-2011, 12:00 AM   #50
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If what you are saying is true, advertisers would never place ads in magazines (maybe 2 hours reading experience) or in 30 minute TV shows. However, they do.
Yes, they do. But most magazines not only have ads on every page, but they have pages of ads with no text. Sometimes they'll have six pages of ads before the TOC, and three pages of ads after. Articles are repeatedly interrupted by ads - not just in the text, but between pages of the text. It is extremely obtrusive.

So perhaps if books went for *this* model ads could work. But that's a far cry from the ad or two on the KSO that doesn't interfere with the reading experience.
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Old 09-19-2011, 02:01 PM   #51
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if everything goes tablet, i'll simply give up ebooks. i already have a smartphone which i find borderline useless, i don't want a bigger version of it.
I used to read on my phone while waiting in lines but I really use my iPad more than my phone anyday. I use my pad more than my Kindle because I read comics and magazines more that text and if I have my ipad with me I read off it.
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Old 09-21-2011, 06:38 AM   #52
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The cloud is great IF you have Internet connectivity.
Yeap.
Offline mode needed.

When I buy something, i want the something to be on a hard drive i can control.

Cloud only thingy, rental.
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Old 09-21-2011, 11:36 AM   #53
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Yeap.
Offline mode needed.

When I buy something, i want the something to be on a hard drive i can control.

Cloud only thingy, rental.
WEll, with HTML 5 there is an offline reading option. Its interesting that on a site full of techies, practically no one seems to know that there is an offline reading option for various cloud reading solutions.

Here is a reporton the Financial Times web app

LINK

Here is the Kindle Cloud Reader , which has an offline reading mode

LINK

Quote:
Once you authorize Cloud Reader to take up more space on the device, you're presented with a screen listing every book you have purchased. Tap and hold any book and it will begin downloading for offline reading. You can toggle between Cloud and Downloaded books using tabs at the bottom of the screen.
Things have moved on, but on Mobile Read, its still 2007
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Old 09-21-2011, 12:46 PM   #54
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WEll, with HTML 5 there is an offline reading option. Its interesting that on a site full of techies, practically no one seems to know that there is an offline reading option for various cloud reading solutions.


Here is the Kindle Cloud Reader , which has an offline reading mode



Things have moved on, but on Mobile Read, its still 2007
A cloud reader with an offline reading option is what we already have now from Amazon and B&N and their associated stores. This is not the future; it is the present. (Aside from the IMO completely pointless ability to read books without downloading them to your device - while streaming makes a lot of sense for movies, where downloading a two hour HD movie can take 2 hours, it makes little sense for books, where downloading an 8 hour book takes 15 seconds).

The real impetus behind the cloud reader isn't technological advancement - it's not as good as Amazon's existing reading apps. The real impetus is simply to avoid Apple's in-app buying rules...because the cloud reader counts as a web app and not a normal app, books bought through it aren't required to pay the 30% toll to Apple.
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Old 09-21-2011, 03:56 PM   #55
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There's already people who own both -eink reader and fully fledged tablets. People like me. I'm not about to shift my reading habits from my reader to my tablet. It's not necessarily about "cannot read" on the LCD screen, it is the preference for long-term reading (several hours at a time) on the eink screen. I like to browse the web and read news stories on my tablet..... but when I'm ready to read a book, i really really prefer the eink screen.

Vic
Exactly! I look forward to reading knitting magazines on my tablet, though. If they could just make a tablet where you could use both LCD and eink!
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Old 09-21-2011, 04:06 PM   #56
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A cloud reader with an offline reading option is what we already have now from Amazon and B&N and their associated stores. This is not the future; it is the present. (Aside from the IMO completely pointless ability to read books without downloading them to your device - while streaming makes a lot of sense for movies, where downloading a two hour HD movie can take 2 hours, it makes little sense for books, where downloading an 8 hour book takes 15 seconds).

The real impetus behind the cloud reader isn't technological advancement - it's not as good as Amazon's existing reading apps. The real impetus is simply to avoid Apple's in-app buying rules...because the cloud reader counts as a web app and not a normal app, books bought through it aren't required to pay the 30% toll to Apple.
Well, web apps do have have other advantages from the development aspect- develop once, serve everyone. Native apps have to be written for every platform. Financial Times justifies their choice thusly:

Quote:
“The FT Web App offers our customers flexibility and freedom of choice with access to our global journalism anytime, anywhere, with a single login or subscription. In a world of increasingly digital complexity we want to keep our service simple, easy to use and efficient to offer our customers the best possible experience of FT journalism.”
LINK

But you're right, not paying 30% has a lot to do with it.

Another big advantage for publishers to "streaming"rather than"downloading" books is piracy. Pirating downloaded books, as we are reminded frequently here, is trivially easy-just strip DRM. Its a lots harder technically to pirate a stream. Now on MR, piracy is considered something that , if anything, beneficial to authors and publishers. Authors and publishers don't see it that way and I don't think will ever see it that way. For them its thievery-pure and simple and they want to avoid it all costs. One way is DRM, which is ineffective against piracy ( but effective against casual sharing).DRM, however, is expensive and riles up the techies.
"Streaming" books would be effective against piracy and casual sharing .( It wouldn't stop piracy completely, but it would work much better than DRM.) And there would be no DRM headaches.
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Old 09-22-2011, 04:38 AM   #57
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4. People who buy books aren't interested in multimedia extravaganzas. We've had multimedia publishing for 15+ years; it's called the World Wide Web. And, about 99.999999% of the time, the more multimedia it is, the more thoroughly it sucks. It is not a replacement for books, and will not kill the market for books.
I assume you have done extensive studies to prove your points? Or are you just distilling this out of the aether?
(I agree with the last sentence, though. There is no need for anything to replace books. Comics didn't replace short stories. Movies didn't replace books.)

Don't forget to add that NO ONE would EVER try to read a technical book on an eReader. That has been declared before, so it must be true.

Of course, both mean that I too cannot exist, because I am interested in "multimedia extravaganzas" and did read somewhat technical books (about programming, though) on the eReader.

----

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Originally Posted by xg4bx View Post
if everything goes tablet, i'll simply give up ebooks. i already have a smartphone which i find borderline useless, i don't want a bigger version of it.
If I may ask - why?
Assuming the potential tablet would be eReader-sized and use eInk (or another technology with similar result) that has color, why would you give up eBooks? What would you lose?
Unless you mean that you wouldn't want to read on LCD-Screens?

(Note: the above described is what I would envision for "eReaders" of the future. I know it's not a popular thought around here.)

----

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Its a lots harder technically to pirate a stream.
I wouldn't bet on that.
Digital tools can be used by anyone, once created.
Anything that is "streamed" still needs to be downloaded to the device. You can encrypt the transport, you can hide the download in memory, but at some point it needs to be in plain view, unless you give every customer a free decoder ring.

RealMedia used streams in it's own protocol - there are (have been?) programs to download these streams.
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Old 09-22-2011, 06:45 AM   #58
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If they release a eink (or similar technology) tablet I can read outside I have no problems with a tablet.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:33 PM   #59
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Amazons web reader doesn't get around anything. If you can type in read.amazon.com to read a book, you can type in amazon.com to BUY a kindle book.

Nobody is going to choose to read via the website instead of the app. I like the web option for when I'm on my computer for work and need a quick break. It's nice. But it's not nearly as nice as reading via the kindle app on my iPad.

Lee
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Old 09-28-2011, 12:18 AM   #60
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Amazons web reader doesn't get around anything. If you can type in read.amazon.com to read a book, you can type in amazon.com to BUY a kindle book.

Nobody is going to choose to read via the website instead of the app. I like the web option for when I'm on my computer for work and need a quick break. It's nice. But it's not nearly as nice as reading via the kindle app on my iPad.

Lee
Not the webreader. The Kindle Cloud webapp. It looks like the regular app and will download books to your iPad. But you can buy books from within the app, and buy samples by clicking a button at the end of the sample.
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