Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > General Discussions

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-01-2011, 03:18 AM   #1
xg4bx
Are you gonna eat that?
xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.xg4bx ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
xg4bx's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,619
Karma: 22984236
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Phillipsburg, NJ
Device: Kindle 3, Nook STG
Children in books:A pet peeve

Maybe its just the books I read but why do children in fiction seemingly exist purely to do something stupid? I can't even count how many times I've seen a kid used as nothing more than a catalyst for action. Ooops, Billy did something stupid, he wanted to see the kitty and ended up letting the monsters in. D'oh! Nothing else going on and you've gotta move the story along? Have Billy exercise the brains God gave a turnip and endanger everyone. Which inevitably ends in a character dying trying to save the kid. Even in horror fiction, very few authors will have harm befall a child despite it happening in the real world a zillion times a day. It still seems like a "taboo". But I digress...

I don't hate kids, I don't mind kids in books. But inwardly I groan when a point is made to introduce one because I know at some point they'll do something dopey. Seen and not heard, thats my motto lol.

Authors should actually have some insight into, say a 13 year olds, thought process and not have them make decisions that a paste eating 5 year old would question if they need to have a child character.The same goes for authors who try to write an ethnic or minority character but thats a whole 'nother discussion....
xg4bx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 05:05 AM   #2
Bikeridr
Information Acquirer
Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Bikeridr ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Bikeridr's Avatar
 
Posts: 427
Karma: 2125794
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Latvia, Rigas Rajons
Device: Kindle 3 International
Well,
Harry (Potter) does not seem to be utterly stupid.
Neither Ilien (Shawn Cormiers "Nomadin" trilogy) nor Max (Nick Spalding "The Cornerstone") are stupid.

I don't know about Random (D. Adams "Hitchikers Guide") though, alas I suspect her only to be strongheaded.
Bikeridr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 06:45 AM   #3
JeremyR
Guru
JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.JeremyR ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
JeremyR's Avatar
 
Posts: 969
Karma: 2458216
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: St. Louis
Device: Kindle Keyboard, Nook HD+
Is it always children? I've been reading some of the J.S. Fletcher mysteries from here and he seems to frequently make his main characters do remarkably stupid things so the villains can capture them and explain the whole mystery.

I mean, if you knew that two people were brutally murdered nearby possibly regarding buried treasure, would you romp about the countryside investigating ruins? Unarmed?

And then the villains are even dumber, because they don't kill the idiots, but instead explain everything, only to be foiled at the end.

I guess that's common in a lot of fiction, but it's aggravating.
JeremyR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 07:14 AM   #4
miguel1626
Great Old One
miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
miguel1626's Avatar
 
Posts: 171
Karma: 998538
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: L1 Orbit
Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2, iPod Touch 4th gen
I think this is just confirmation bias on your part. There're plenty of counterexamples.

You mention horror, but Stephen King's children are rarely stupid (It, Salem's Lot, The Shining). In George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, children are no more likely to be stupid than adults. Someone else already mentioned Harry Potter, but I can add Percy Jackson and His Dark Materials to the list (in fact, juvenile fantasy seldom portrays children as stupid, given their target audience).

So yeah, maybe its just the books you read
miguel1626 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 08:35 AM   #5
Skibble
Runs With Scissors
Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Skibble ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Skibble's Avatar
 
Posts: 115
Karma: 1173596
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: USA
Device: Kindle Voyage
Quote:
Originally Posted by miguel1626 View Post
I think this is just confirmation bias on your part.
Going to have to agree with this. I can't recall the last book I read in which a child served as a plot device alone, or did anything any more stupid than the adults. In fact, the last book I finished, Cleopatra's Daughter, had main characters who were all in the 11-15 range and were exceedingly mature and intelligent.
Skibble is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 08:48 AM   #6
Ravensknight
Serpent Rider
Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ravensknight ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ravensknight's Avatar
 
Posts: 804
Karma: 5948888
Join Date: Jun 2009
Device: Sony 505, 350; Nook STR; Kindle T, NT4B; Nexus 7; Superpad 10in tablet
Do you actually have kids? Or have relatives who have kids? [maybe you just have very smart, emotionally balanced, introverted ones?]

Because let me tell you, kids do some pretty dumb things. ALL THE TIME!!!!!
My cousin has a brood of 4, and anytime my wife and I think "oh, maybe we should have children" we just go over to their place for the afternoon, and presto-chango, we're good with no kids

I do agree that sometimes authors use children as plot devices, but that doesn't make it unbelievable that little Tommy would actually run into the road, or climb over that cliff or....etc, etc.

Kids are what make us old
Ravensknight is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 11:21 AM   #7
mrscoach
Guru
mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.mrscoach ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
mrscoach's Avatar
 
Posts: 672
Karma: 1977479
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Weatherford Texas
Device: Samsung Galaxy S3
Have I mentioned the fact that my daughter, who was about 6 at the time, once scaled a sheer cliff by wedging herself into a crack and shimmying up? She wanted to see what was at the top!

Yeah, kids do dumb things. It has to do with a part of their brain that isn't developed until around the age of 18.

There's a huge javelina outside? Let me go pet the thing with the HUGE tusks/teeth. LOL
mrscoach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 11:56 AM   #8
Hellmark
Wizard
Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hellmark ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hellmark's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,521
Karma: 3638167
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Maryland Heights, Missouri, USA
Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by xg4bx View Post
Maybe its just the books I read but why do children in fiction seemingly exist purely to do something stupid? I can't even count how many times I've seen a kid used as nothing more than a catalyst for action. Ooops, Billy did something stupid, he wanted to see the kitty and ended up letting the monsters in. D'oh! Nothing else going on and you've gotta move the story along? Have Billy exercise the brains God gave a turnip and endanger everyone. Which inevitably ends in a character dying trying to save the kid. Even in horror fiction, very few authors will have harm befall a child despite it happening in the real world a zillion times a day. It still seems like a "taboo". But I digress...

I don't hate kids, I don't mind kids in books. But inwardly I groan when a point is made to introduce one because I know at some point they'll do something dopey. Seen and not heard, thats my motto lol.

Authors should actually have some insight into, say a 13 year olds, thought process and not have them make decisions that a paste eating 5 year old would question if they need to have a child character.The same goes for authors who try to write an ethnic or minority character but thats a whole 'nother discussion....
Stories, be it in books, movies, or other, are escapes for most people. Kids get harmed in real life, and people want to get away from real life. Plus, kids are easy fodder for catalysts, since they are not fully developed mentally or emotionally, and thus prone to causing issues. That is something that does happen in real life, but often isn't overly problematic, so authors have no problem borrowing from those experiences. Plus, if you need something to happen and all seems good leading up to the event, which is easier to explain, the inexperienced kid doing something stupid, or the mature adult doing something stupid despite their experience telling them better.
Hellmark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:09 PM   #9
Nancy Fulda
I write stories.
Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nancy Fulda ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nancy Fulda's Avatar
 
Posts: 579
Karma: 10083090
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Northern Germany
Device: kindle
When I first read Ender's Game, my immediate response was "Finally! A realistic rendition of a child who's smart and behaves rationally!"

Years later, I found out that many readers complained about Ender's personality because he seemed too grown up.

It appears readers have vastly different expectations about how children think...
Nancy Fulda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:15 PM   #10
kjk
.
kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.kjk ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 3,408
Karma: 5647231
Join Date: Oct 2008
Device: never enough
Sounds like a variation of "carrying the idiot ball".
kjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:28 PM   #11
afa
The Forgotten
afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.afa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
afa's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,136
Karma: 4689999
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Dubai
Device: NOOK Touch; NOOK Classic
Quote:
Originally Posted by miguel1626 View Post
In George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire, children are no more likely to be stupid than adults.
Funny you should bring that up, because ironically, my pet peeve (particularly in Fantasy) is the other end of the spectrum.

I get irritated by the portrayal of kids as people who are far more intelligent, wise, courageous and thoughtful than probably any kid is in the whole world.

As much as I love the series, A Song of Ice and Fire is particularly guilty of this. Danaerys is, what, 14? And Jon Snow is 16 (same as Robb) and Bran is 8 or 9. Arya is only a little older.

Personally, whenever I read about them I picture them as older. I've never thought of Dany as 14, for instance; in my head, she's more like 20. Sorry, but there is no way I can believe that a bunch of teenagers and pre-adolescents can be anywhere near as rational and put-together as portrayed by GRRM.
afa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:29 PM   #12
Daithi
Publishers are evil!
Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Daithi ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Daithi's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,418
Karma: 36205264
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Device: Various Kindles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nancy Fulda View Post
When I first read Ender's Game, my immediate response was "Finally! A realistic rendition of a child who's smart and behaves rationally!"

Years later, I found out that many readers complained about Ender's personality because he seemed too grown up.

It appears readers have vastly different expectations about how children think...
Ender's Game was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the OP's post. In fact, I see things just the opposite of the OP. I find that the kids in most of the books I read are more intelligent than the average kids in real life. Not that this bothers me, I still like the stories.
Daithi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:55 PM   #13
theducks
Grand Sorcerer
theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.theducks ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
theducks's Avatar
 
Posts: 15,085
Karma: 5939999
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: (The original) Silicon Valley, USA
Device: Galaxy Tab 2, Astak Pocket Pro, K4NT
Getting in (over your head) trouble is a side effect of children learning .
AKA 'The school of hard knocks'
theducks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 12:57 PM   #14
cfo
Connoisseur
cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.cfo ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
cfo's Avatar
 
Posts: 92
Karma: 667753
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: US
Device: KSO, iPhone4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daithi View Post
Ender's Game was the first thing that came to my mind when I read the OP's post. In fact, I see things just the opposite of the OP. I find that the kids in most of the books I read are more intelligent than the average kids in real life. Not that this bothers me, I still like the stories.
Same here. Very intelligent, deeper thinking, etc.

I remember when the TV show, Dawson's Creek, came out. Tons of people were so into that show because it was the first drama where teens acted more like adults and had the vocabulary of college professors. But, everyone who saw the show always said the same thing: no kids really talk like that.

It's all just entertainment.
cfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2011, 01:49 PM   #15
miguel1626
Great Old One
miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.miguel1626 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
miguel1626's Avatar
 
Posts: 171
Karma: 998538
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: L1 Orbit
Device: Kindle 3, iPad 2, iPod Touch 4th gen
Quote:
Originally Posted by afa View Post
Personally, whenever I read about them I picture them as older. I've never thought of Dany as 14, for instance; in my head, she's more like 20. Sorry, but there is no way I can believe that a bunch of teenagers and pre-adolescents can be anywhere near as rational and put-together as portrayed by GRRM.
I must admit that this occurred to me a few times while reading the series (particularly in the Daenerys/Jon Snow chapters - Arya is much more child-like, albeit a very fierce child).

Nonetheless, Alexander the Great became king when he was 19. And 19 is not so far from 16 maturity-wise (if I can remember my misspent youth accurately). Life experiences matter more than raw age. And the g factor stabilizes between 16-19 years (and they all have high g).

Given that all the aforementioned characters experienced several life-changing events before adulthood, in a relatively short time-frame, it is fair to expect a hastening of general development.

And to be fair to GRRM, both Jon Snow and Daenerys have their teenage moments, when they make patently stupid/naive decisions that are emotion-driven.
miguel1626 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
scrolling pet peeve sylviebi Amazon Kindle 17 08-21-2011 11:59 AM
Touch Pet Peeve -hoping for a fix in a future firmware version Joyful Kobo Reader 2 08-04-2011 03:18 AM
Pet Peeve mediax Feedback 0 02-09-2011 01:17 PM
Amazon Review Pet Peeve crutnacker Amazon Kindle 11 04-17-2010 11:43 PM
Pet peeve: series authors who introduce things in non-series books! ficbot Reading Recommendations 12 02-06-2010 03:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:06 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.