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Old 08-14-2011, 12:06 PM   #76
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Please note that CommonReader has needs that are different from other people here, he does productive work unlike anyone with an iPad/tablet... productive work requires at least a notebook... this is fact as stated...

Edit as CR not clear on his own words - Quote: "Some colleagues use iPads for reading papers and documents and for receiving mails. However, the very moment productive work has to be done they are reaching for their laptops." Simple implication, productive work is done on laptops not iPads... your words... and I don't even have an iPad, just an extreme dislike of blanket statements condescending to those who disagree...

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Old 08-14-2011, 12:13 PM   #77
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Perhaps there is a "comprehension skills" app available to help here?
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Old 08-14-2011, 12:45 PM   #78
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Please note that CommonReader has needs that are different from other people here, he does productive work unlike anyone with an iPad/tablet... productive work requires at least a notebook... this is fact as stated...

Edit as CR not clear on his own words - Quote: "Some colleagues use iPads for reading papers and documents and for receiving mails. However, the very moment productive work has to be done they are reaching for their laptops." Simple implication, productive work is done on laptops not iPads... your words... and I don't even have an iPad, just an extreme dislike of blanket statements condescending to those who disagree...
The moment CommonReader's colleagues need to do productive work, they reach for laptops. I don't see any blanket statement in there, unless it's "other people with similar jobs may need laptops for their productive work too."

I haven't bothered with a tablet because it would be a fancy toy for me; it can't do the productive or creative work I use a computer for. It can't even do the productive work my kids need for their homework assignments, which pretty much just need a word processor & very limited graphic editing abilities.

They're great consumption devices, including for a lot of business work. You can *read* what you need to on an iPad. You can send emails and do a lot of other communications. But nobody's said you can use one to create deliverable products, either for academic or professional purposes.

Log sales? Sure. Manage a sales database? No. Track your hours on a project? Sure. Manage your company payroll? No. List deliverables and prices? Sure. Create an invoice that attaches to your client records? No.

Make notes? Sure. Write a novel? No. (Except in the sense that, I suppose, someone could use Notepad or the equivalent to write a novel.) Read PDFs? Sure. Edit PDFs--change the image resolution, move text around, add & remove bookmarks, insert new scanned pages, run OCR, edit the metadata? No. View pictures? Sure. Sort a collection of pictures? Maybe. Burn a CD to hand to the client? No.

What deliverable-to-the-paying-client work gets done on iPads or other tablets?
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Old 08-14-2011, 01:50 PM   #79
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I withdraw from the thread... all iPads and tablets are toys not worth using... in your opinions which are infinitely more valuable than those of people who are trying to point out that there is more than viewpoint in the world... got to go and finish proofing a Word doc on my Android tablet so I can deliver to my client and get paid... oh no, can't do that, you have spoken...
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:13 PM   #80
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Make notes? Sure. Write a novel? No.
Actually, Charles Stross wrote his latest novel on an Ipad. He's in agreement that its not the easiest device for this, though.

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...ad-corner.html

Lawyers who use the Ipad
http://www.tabletlegal.com/ipad-easy-lawyer/

Architects who use the Ipad

http://www.tipb.com/2010/07/11/ipad-work-architect/

Doctors who use the Ipad:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2010/02/...ient-care.html

We haven't even looked at consultants, salespeople, real estate brokers-people who travel around making presentations for a living.

What's astonishing is that a device that was designed with consumers in mind has so seized the imaginations of businesspeople. Steve Jobs (PBUH)
said something to the effect that they designed the Ipad for consumers, but that business was "tearing it out of their hands".

I think businesspersons are people too, and they want to use attractive gadgets in their daily lives, even if said devices aren't designed specifically for business use. Fortunately, the Ipad can be customized via software for business uses,
"If you want to carry around updated medical records on rounds, the're an app for that.
If you want an electronic aid to pick juries, there's an app for that,
If you want to carry around a photo portfolio of your graphic designs, there's even an app for that"
There's an app for lots of business uses in the App Store"

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Old 08-14-2011, 02:20 PM   #81
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I withdraw from the thread... all iPads and tablets are toys not worth using... in your opinions which are infinitely more valuable than those of people who are trying to point out that there is more than viewpoint in the world... got to go and finish proofing a Word doc on my Android tablet so I can deliver to my client and get paid... oh no, can't do that, you have spoken...
Stupid fanboi-ism, seriously. I never claimed that there is no business application for a tablet - I said that a tablet isn't as flexible and powerful as a laptop. Unable to challenge this simple statement you obviously prefer to withdraw huffing and puffing.
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:46 PM   #82
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Stupid fanboi-ism, seriously. I never claimed that there is no business application for a tablet - I said that a tablet isn't as flexible and powerful as a laptop. Unable to challenge this simple statement you obviously prefer to withdraw huffing and puffing.
For once, I can't let stupid remarks go, your words - "However, the very moment productive work has to be done they are reaching for their laptops." is as near as makes no difference a claim "...that there is no business application for a tablet"

Still, can't expect better from people who drop to general and personal insults... "Stupid fanboi-ism, seriously." Again your gratuitously offensive remarks... can't you pay attention as I've already said that I use desktop and notebook computers for work and fun but that there are equally viable uses for tablets, something you don't appear to accept...

Edited to correct a cut'n'paste error from an email to a friend discussing the inanities in this thread... and a sincere apology for attributing a quote to you that belonged to Elfwreck...

Last edited by elcreative; 08-14-2011 at 03:19 PM. Reason: Correcting quote copying error...
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Old 08-14-2011, 02:58 PM   #83
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For once, I can't let stupid remarks go, your words - "What deliverable-to-the-paying-client work gets done on iPads or other tablets?" is as near as makes no difference a claim "...that there is no business application for a tablet"

Still, can't expect better from people who drop to general and personal insults... "Stupid fanboi-ism, seriously." Again your gratuitously offensive remarks... can't you pay attention as I've already said that I use desktop and notebook computers for work and fun but that there are equally viable uses for tablets, something you don't appear to accept...
Not my words but Elfwreck's. What were you about to do? Proofreading?

Again, I only stated that tablets aren't as flexible and powerful as laptops. It is easy to support this claim with numerous arguments. There is no reason to treat this simple statement about a piece of electronics as if I were questioning the family honour.
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Old 08-14-2011, 03:37 PM   #84
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I've already said that I use desktop and notebook computers for work and fun but that there are equally viable uses for tablets, something you don't appear to accept...
"Equally viable" implies "can do the same work."

Can one edit PDF bookmarks, metadata and text on an iPad? Is there an app for editing tiff images inside an OCR correction program?

I admit I got caught up in the argument and exaggerated. One can do production work on a tablet. I maintain that it's very limited, and a modern office can't replace all its laptops or destkops entirely with iPads--which would be the case, if they were "equally viable."
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Old 08-14-2011, 05:22 PM   #85
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I'm afraid "equally viable" as in capable of being used to complete productive tasks that will commonly be known as "work"... it does not mean the same... bats and birds have equally viable methods of flying but they are not the same... equal is the same. equally viable means equally usable in the workplace but not necessarily for the same things... I wouldn't care to use an iPad for running a nuclear power station but have no problems doing editing and proofing with an Android tablet...
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Old 08-14-2011, 06:31 PM   #86
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They're not useful for business management or document creation/production.

Are there law firms that distribute iPads instead of laptops to the secretaries/exec assistants?
How many years have you worked in business management or document creation/production?
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:44 AM   #87
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Technically, the copyright owners could've sued Apple instead of requesting removal--Apple was selling & distributing works for which it did not have copyright. OS advocates being willing to settle for "remove it" instead of "get sued for up to $150,000 for every copy you've illegally sold or given away" is the polite reaction on the part of the copyright holders.

Apple was in violation of copyright by offering to sell those apps in the first place.
Until settled by a court, that isn't known to be true. (For example see discussion in link below)
Lots of people are happy to sell me a set-top appliance running Linux, without offering me any way to access or redistribute the software. How is that not also a violation of the license?

Secondly, this is not a problem with 'open source software', but with a particular open source license.

http://www.tuaw.com/2011/01/09/the-g...store-and-you/
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Can the App Store and the GPL co-exist?

The most obvious conflict between the App Store and the GPL is the third freedom – "the freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor."

There has been lengthy discussion about this issue, with people advancing arguments on both sides. Sadly, the bottom line is this: firstly, it's a gray area, and secondly, it's unlikely to ever be certain one way or the other without a legal trial. We're unlikely to ever get a trial because Apple (as software distributor for all App Store programs) is probably not going to ever go to bat for an Open Source package in a courtroom. So the practical outcome is that the App Store and the GPL are incompatible until proven otherwise, and it's probably never going to be proven otherwise. Apple certainly thinks so, or it wouldn't have removed VLC (and other Open Source apps like GNU Go) from the App Store.

The Free Software Foundation, authors of the GPL, also doesn't think so. The argument revolves around the following clause in the GPL v2:

Each time you redistribute the Program (or any work based on the Program), the recipient automatically receives a license from the original licensor to copy, distribute or modify the Program subject to these terms and conditions. You may not impose any further restrictions on the recipients' exercise of the rights granted herein.

Now consider the App Store User Agreement:

(i) You may download and sync a Product for personal, noncommercial use on any Apple-branded products running iOS ("iOS Product") you own or control.

(ii) If you are a commercial enterprise or educational institution, you may download and sync a Product for use by either (a) a single individual on one or more iOS Product you own or control or (b) multiple individuals, on a single shared iOS Product you own or control.

(iii) You shall be able to store App Store Products from up to five different Accounts at a time on compatible iOS Products.

The FSF's legal council takes the stance that these are restrictions on what the user can do with software obtained from the App Store, so that's immediately a breach of the GPL. It doesn't matter that the iOS port of VLC is free. In fact, it might be clearer to imagine it wasn't.

Consider if Applidium had charged $5 for their port of VLC, while also distributing the full source on their website. Nothing in the GPL precludes developers from charging for derived works, so that's fine and above board. Mike buys a copy for $5, and he wants to give a copy to his friend Steve (as is his right under the GPL), but he can't. Steve is free to pay another $5 for his own copy, but he can't get it from Mike; he has to go back to Apple.

In this instance VLC was free, so Steve doesn't mind that he has to get a free copy; but that might not be true of some future software, and in any event, it doesn't matter because the legal terms of the GPL do not allow exclusions just because a piece of derived software happens to be free.

Note that the FSF page makes reference to only installing apps on five iOS devices at once as another restriction of user's rights; this appears to be an error, as this statement only appears in the iTunes content part of the User Agreement and doesn't apply to iOS apps. It's also possible that the iTunes User Agreement was modified after the FSF article was published.
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Old 08-15-2011, 07:56 PM   #88
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How many years have you worked in business management or document creation/production?
Document creation/production: 12 years solid; bits & pieces (call it "freelancing") before that. I did mention a set of specific programs I use--I could potentially switch to other programs that do what they do, if those exist in app format.

At a minimum: word processing, image editing, OCR & correction thereof, and PDF editing. Spreadsheet functions would also be useful, especially the ability to copy/paste sections from a spreadsheet into other documents.

Business management: nothing directly professional; have looked at what's available for managing home business & have assisted with accounting/invoicing at work.

If the doc creation/production options I need exist in tablet format, I would *happily* get a tablet & bluetooth keyboard and switch to that. Somehow, I doubt it... Finereader doesn't have a full version for Mac, much less Android.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:07 PM   #89
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For tens of millions of people, a laptop - or desktop, for that matter - is just a toy. Most people who have a computer at home never use it for productive work aside from, maybe, writing the occasional e-mail. They use the home computer for internet and e-mail, and probably nothing else. The iPad is a good replacement for these people.

The conceit in this thread that people won't use an iPad because it's not useful for productive work - even if it were correct - has no bearing on how most people use their second computer.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:06 PM   #90
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For tens of millions of people, a laptop - or desktop, for that matter - is just a toy. Most people who have a computer at home never use it for productive work aside from, maybe, writing the occasional e-mail. They use the home computer for internet and e-mail, and probably nothing else. The iPad is a good replacement for these people.

The conceit in this thread that people won't use an iPad because it's not useful for productive work - even if it were correct - has no bearing on how most people use their second computer.
Maybe it's my age, but I don't know anyone who just does email and internet on their home computers. Not even my grandparents.

My artistic friends create movies, either professionally or for YouTube. Others do serious photography. Neither of which can run well on even a laptop. You need big screens and lots of power for real work in these fields. Even my 93 year old grandfather uses Photoshop.

My engineering peers are constantly tinkering. I know, myself, I have 3 different CAD programs on my computer, not to mention several programming languages. I'm not alone in this.

I think it's really silly to assume 'most' people don't do power intensive things on their computers.
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