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Old 07-27-2011, 02:54 AM   #16
Hitch
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Originally Posted by theducks View Post
Just because you can't See(watch) the Video in Sigil, does not mean that you can't create the document? (still cringing: Video in books )
Ducky:

You can't create the document, really; we do it by using placeholder tags, then ripping open the html and substituting the video or audio tags. Sigil strips 'em, because they're not part of the Spec. Can't be done in Sigil alone.

HTH,
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Old 07-27-2011, 07:48 AM   #17
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Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
Ducky:

You can't create the document, really; we do it by using placeholder tags, then ripping open the html and substituting the video or audio tags. Sigil strips 'em, because they're not part of the Spec. Can't be done in Sigil alone.

HTH,
Hitch
If Sigil can't do it alone, what else do we need?

Can't be done in Sigil alone, so, we need to do it by using placeholder tags, then ripping open the html and substituting the video or audio tags.

Is this what we need to do?
sorry if my question was pointless.
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nori View Post
If Sigil can't do it alone, what else do we need?

Can't be done in Sigil alone, so, we need to do it by using placeholder tags, then ripping open the html and substituting the video or audio tags.

Is this what we need to do?
sorry if my question was pointless.
I think what Hitch is saying: Put a Picture of the screen shape size your
video will occupy (aplacemat.jpg. could even be a screen shot of the title),and note the filename that contains it.

AFTER your EPUB has passed Flightcrew and been FINAL saved.
Unpack the Epub and replace the place holder code, image in the file you noted, and re-pack the EPUB.

Maybe we can get John to loosen up the Pure EPUB spec enforcement, and allow 'Non-Spec items' to be included after answering a few Nag boxes ("I authorize non-compliant inclusion")
Flightcrew only Yellow Flags extra files , so why not treat a Video as 'extra'?
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Old 07-27-2011, 10:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
I think what Hitch is saying: Put a Picture of the screen shape size your
video will occupy (aplacemat.jpg. could even be a screen shot of the title),and note the filename that contains it.

AFTER your EPUB has passed Flightcrew and been FINAL saved.
Unpack the Epub and replace the place holder code, image in the file you noted, and re-pack the EPUB.

Maybe we can get John to loosen up the Pure EPUB spec enforcement, and allow 'Non-Spec items' to be included after answering a few Nag boxes ("I authorize non-compliant inclusion")
Flightcrew only Yellow Flags extra files , so why not treat a Video as 'extra'?
Instead of just non-compliant perhaps ePub Version 3 would be appropriate as a marker, which would now do the same thing but would set a direction for the future. ePub 3 is coming. I have started to make some sense of it in the wiki but it is only preliminary. I would seem things are headed for more complications.
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Old 07-27-2011, 06:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
I think what Hitch is saying: Put a Picture of the screen shape size your
video will occupy (aplacemat.jpg. could even be a screen shot of the title),and note the filename that contains it.

AFTER your EPUB has passed Flightcrew and been FINAL saved.
Unpack the Epub and replace the place holder code, image in the file you noted, and re-pack the EPUB.

Maybe we can get John to loosen up the Pure EPUB spec enforcement, and allow 'Non-Spec items' to be included after answering a few Nag boxes ("I authorize non-compliant inclusion")
Flightcrew only Yellow Flags extra files , so why not treat a Video as 'extra'?
For clarity:

What I meant was, we use some type of html tag that passes, i.e., an href, and put in text that we can easily search for, like "VIDEO HERE, IDIOT!" (Yes, my crews send me those type of love-notes.) When the epub has passed epubcheck, we:
  1. Crack open the epub;
  2. Open the relevant xhtml file that contains the video, OR,
  3. Open the relevant xhtml file(s) that contain the audio clips,
  4. In whatever html editor blows your skirt up--I'm a NoteTab Pro gal, meself, and
  5. Replace the href code with the proper audio/video html5 tags as per Apple's specs, then,
  6. We save the altered xhtml files, and,
  7. Rezip the epub, using something simple like epubpack.

That's it. We usually wrap the href around an image that's the poster image. That's what I really meant by "placeholder," was some code you can easily find and then replace in an html editor, because despite Sigil's wonderfulness, you can't get there from here.

Also, n.b.--please, everyone note that Apple's latest-and-greatest guidelines, in which they now want Guide items, seems to utterly bollix up any kind of normal paging in Nook. Just FYI. Yanking out hair today; may now have to make epubs ONLY for Apple and epubs for everyone else. What a load of old....

(Ooops, n.b.#2: If you're brave, try Bookbin, particularly if you're only (no offense) doing your own book, for multi-media, but beware the Beta-wocky. What the heck.)

And, really, what freaking genius decides to go to war with AMAZON? The second-largest corporation in the WORLD, behind Exxon? Wankers.

Frustrated with Apple,
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:58 AM   #21
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Quote:
And, really, what freaking genius decides to go to war with AMAZON? The second-largest corporation in the WORLD, behind Exxon? Wankers.
Well Apple has almost always warred with the big guys, initially Microsoft. At least since the 80s. Although I do believe they went overboard here. Who would fight Amazon? How about California? They are fighting with Amazon over tax collection. Does Apple collect taxes from iTunes?

Dale

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Old 07-31-2011, 01:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitch View Post
For clarity:

What I meant was, we use some type of html tag that passes, i.e., an href, and put in text that we can easily search for, like "VIDEO HERE, IDIOT!" (Yes, my crews send me those type of love-notes.) When the epub has passed epubcheck, we:
  1. Crack open the epub;
  2. Open the relevant xhtml file that contains the video, OR,
  3. Open the relevant xhtml file(s) that contain the audio clips,
  4. In whatever html editor blows your skirt up--I'm a NoteTab Pro gal, meself, and
  5. Replace the href code with the proper audio/video html5 tags as per Apple's specs, then,
  6. We save the altered xhtml files, and,
  7. Rezip the epub, using something simple like epubpack.

That's it. We usually wrap the href around an image that's the poster image. That's what I really meant by "placeholder," was some code you can easily find and then replace in an html editor, because despite Sigil's wonderfulness, you can't get there from here.

Also, n.b.--please, everyone note that Apple's latest-and-greatest guidelines, in which they now want Guide items, seems to utterly bollix up any kind of normal paging in Nook. Just FYI. Yanking out hair today; may now have to make epubs ONLY for Apple and epubs for everyone else. What a load of old....

(Ooops, n.b.#2: If you're brave, try Bookbin, particularly if you're only (no offense) doing your own book, for multi-media, but beware the Beta-wocky. What the heck.)

And, really, what freaking genius decides to go to war with AMAZON? The second-largest corporation in the WORLD, behind Exxon? Wankers.

Frustrated with Apple,
Hitch
It's gonna take long time to understand for me.
I wish Apple will publish more easy guide for video & audio in epub.
epub with the video is very attractive, but very frustrating...
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Old 08-03-2011, 05:19 PM   #23
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It's gonna take long time to understand for me.
I wish Apple will publish more easy guide for video & audio in epub.
epub with the video is very attractive, but very frustrating...
Actually, it's not very attractive. I prefer the words. If an author cannot get his/her point across with just words and needs video to help, then said author is not all that good.
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Old 08-04-2011, 03:12 AM   #24
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They only kind of books for which I can imagine audio or video are instruction or training manuals and then not even all kinds.

However, those kind of manuals also can have other specifics which can be hard to do with ePUB.

I really think it is a bad decisions to go for audio/video/javascript support in ePUB v3 instead of solving more book related issues like better formatting, correct handling of footnotes, perhaps headers and footers and things like that.
That's what happens when company's with big money are messing with open standards to get their crap in.
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Old 08-04-2011, 11:15 AM   #25
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I would agree that there are many pressing matters to fix in the actual eBook experience but video is just an artifact of going to HTML5 and cannot be blamed on ePub. I do think that Apple is tipping the scale a bit heavy on one side.
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Old 08-04-2011, 12:37 PM   #26
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Read this and weep.

Unfortunately, people are convinced that the money lies in developing ever flashier shinies in order to beguile the customers, rather than in fixing fundamental problems or ensuring true cross-platform compatibility. Anyone who believes that ePub 2 address all the problems with creating static text should try creating an ePub that displays everything locked to a baseline grid (a pretty basic approach in typography for a very long time).

ePub 3 contains a lot of things that might make it easier to produce good-looking books that are easy to navigate. But it fails to be prescriptive enough to ensure that these documents work in much the same way across all ePub 3 devices. We already have the problem with people having to tweak ePubs differently for the iPad opposed to ADE, and these differences sometimes go very deep.

The primary job of a standard is to be a standard and the spec uses the word 'should' all too often - which means, 'this is the way we'd like things to happen, but you can ignore it as long as you can think up an excuse'. For instance, the handling of oeb-page-head/foot has had the language "Neither should be simply presented as if it were inline or block." for years, and it's exactly the same in ePub 3, yet ADE 1.8 still presents these elements as blocks in the same flow as the rest of the text. And they can get away with it, because that's what the standard allows.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:38 PM   #27
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I don't want cutesy things in my eBooks. I just want to read. Keep your multimedia out of my books.
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Old 08-04-2011, 08:50 PM   #28
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Angry ARRRGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!

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Originally Posted by charleski View Post
Read this and weep.

Unfortunately, people are convinced that the money lies in developing ever flashier shinies in order to beguile the customers, rather than in fixing fundamental problems or ensuring true cross-platform compatibility. Anyone who believes that ePub 2 address all the problems with creating static text should try creating an ePub that displays everything locked to a baseline grid (a pretty basic approach in typography for a very long time).

ePub 3 contains a lot of things that might make it easier to produce good-looking books that are easy to navigate. But it fails to be prescriptive enough to ensure that these documents work in much the same way across all ePub 3 devices. We already have the problem with people having to tweak ePubs differently for the iPad opposed to ADE, and these differences sometimes go very deep.

The primary job of a standard is to be a standard and the spec uses the word 'should' all too often - which means, 'this is the way we'd like things to happen, but you can ignore it as long as you can think up an excuse'. For instance, the handling of oeb-page-head/foot has had the language "Neither should be simply presented as if it were inline or block." for years, and it's exactly the same in ePub 3, yet ADE 1.8 still presents these elements as blocks in the same flow as the rest of the text. And they can get away with it, because that's what the standard allows.
Sell the sizzle, not the steak. That's the ever-inceasing problem that we run into as commercial ebook producers. I get requests for the fixed-format layout constantly, and I feel bad because I have to charge an arm and a leg--and I'm not that crazy about it, firstly, and secondly, the marketplace for it (on iBooks) is pretty damned narrow bandwidth.

The ADE-iBooks schism is increasingly a problem; as is the ever-growing divergence from "basic" ADE by usage...as an example, Nook's "new" hyphenation issues now cause books that were perfectly fine a year ago to hyphenate absurdly, because they're not wrapped in specific CSS to prevent it. I had a book rejected by frakking Lulu today because "Your ebook has been rejected for missing, incomplete, unreadable, or inaccurate Table of Contents. The NCX must be accurate."

Now, the bloody NCX is accurate, the book validates in every validator on the planet, there's naught missing, incomplete, unreadable or inaccurate. That's their entire error message. So, purely passing epubcheck is now an imaginary goalpost, as it is with Apple. And, like Apple, the "error," however imaginary, is suitably vague so that, no matter what the issue is, you can't find it to fix it, and it has NAFT to do with epub2 or 3. /rant

The essential problem is, as always, money. It's not as though anyone with any authority is standing up and saying that this can't/won't be done; Apple gets what Apple wants; Nook gets what Nook wants, Amazon gets Mobi/prc, and those of us making the actual frakking books are stuck in the middle, wading in increasingly-deep offal, beset by clients who, like crows, want the latest shiny pretty thing. /sorry, mo' rant.

I don't think that there's any solution...because nobody but the folks in the trenches think there's a problem. If ThreePress is making a "magic book" with ePUB3 interactivity, well, bygod, we'll all be stuck with it shortly. We still won't be able to make a freaking dropcap that works in both iBooks and Nook...but bygod, we'll make ships sail across the device. In the meantime, any possibility of using XML as a carrier to make life easier will sail right out the window...

Sorry...you know what? I took one look at that article and my head exploded. I shouldn't be raving. Long day, too much caffeine, too little sleep. Leaving now.

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Old 08-04-2011, 08:57 PM   #29
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Old 08-04-2011, 09:24 PM   #30
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Mom or Dad is supposed to supply the Audio Visual effects while reading a book to smalls.
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