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Old 07-22-2011, 10:39 PM   #286
JSWolf
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I was thinking of pre-1900 classic and 1900 to 1960 classic, but this works too.



I'm still confused about what it takes to claim sufficient groundswell support that it's time to call for a poll. Who the heck decided all this?
So what is wring with a more modern classic? Do we only count books that are more then 50 years old to be classic? There are classic works that are not that old, the author isn't dead, and the book is not in the public domain in any country.

As I see it, classic was added in a 2nd time by mistake and overlooked until I've brought it up
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Old 07-22-2011, 10:42 PM   #287
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Yup. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." And to me, an issue with one month out of twelve doesn't qualify as broke.
Two of the EXACT SAME category makes it broke.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:45 PM   #288
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We cannot base what categories we have based on who might join or leave.
Quite right you are! So then we are agreed that since this year's category list has already been made, that we should abide by it since to do otherwise would be basing the list on who might have joined or left since then.

Last edited by sun surfer; 07-22-2011 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:48 PM   #289
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I have read some classics that were just awful
I assume this is totally objective evaluation.

BOb
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:11 AM   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
So what is wring with a more modern classic? Do we only count books that are more then 50 years old to be classic? There are classic works that are not that old, the author isn't dead, and the book is not in the public domain in any country.

As I see it, classic was added in a 2nd time by mistake and overlooked until I've brought it up
Instead of redefining the meaning of classic, why not have a month where an individual may nominate any book that he or she thinks is excellent​? Oh wait, that is next months category.
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:23 AM   #291
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Quite right you are! So then we are agreed that since this year's category list has already been made, that we should abide by it since to do otherwise would be basing the list on who might have joined or left since then.
Actually, we disagree. I do feel that we should sort out December before it gets to December so we can have a different category. We have two classic and classic is one of the worst categories so why duplicate it?
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Old 07-23-2011, 07:24 AM   #292
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I assume this is totally objective evaluation.

BOb
Some yes and some no.
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Old 07-23-2011, 10:55 AM   #293
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Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes View Post
But time is relative. For us who have ultra short term nostalgia, Douglas Coupland's Generation X is a classic. I know most people understand it's usually older than that, but I dislike that we elevate old above contemporary in so many things. Good fiction is good fiction. Good science fiction is good science fiction.

I was reading this thread the other day and was thinking that removing the second classic one and just having another whatever category would be better, but then I thought a prize winner category as WT Sharpe mentioned might be good.
Actually, you first mentioned it, but it's a good idea in my opinion, whether this year or in 2012.

Last edited by WT Sharpe; 07-23-2011 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 04:16 PM   #294
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ok... as the self-appointed grand poobah....

1. i have no problem changing one of the classic months. Not sure which one though. If we don't want two classic months then lets not have two non-fiction months.

2. Science Fiction and Fantasy are two separate genre's.. even though many stores and reviews group them together.

3. I also agree several books fall into multiple categories.

Some possible ideas... other also through some one...

1. Award winners. (what awards, Pulitzer, Newbury, Caldecot, Hugo, etc?)

2. NYT Best sellers... selected from something on the list at the time we make the nominations.

3. New books/authors... a new book that came out the same year and was an authors first published book.

4. Self-published books... perhaps we can get some more exposed for these authors. I expect many will be MR members.

While the above sound like good ideas, they aren't really genres since two of the list awards are for SF/Fantasy. Any NYT best seller will fall into a genre.

So, what about:

1. Westerns
2. War
3. Folktales
4. Mythical
5. Poetry
6. Historical Fiction
7. Drama/Plays

Any other ideas?

BOb

Last edited by pilotbob; 07-23-2011 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:08 PM   #295
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I mentioned this earlier: historical fiction.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:09 PM   #296
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
ok... as the self-appointed grand poobah....

1. i have no problem changing one of the classic months. Not sure which one though. If we don't want two classic months then lets not have two non-fiction months.

2. Science Fiction and Fantasy are two separate genre's.. even though many stores and reviews group them together.

3. I also agree several books fall into multiple categories.

Some possible ideas... other also through some one...

1. Award winners. (what awards, Pulitzer, Newbury, Caldecot, Hugo, etc?)

2. NYT Best sellers... selected from something on the list at the time we make the nominations.

3. New books/authors... a new book that came out the same year and was an authors first published book.

4. Self-published books... perhaps we can get some more exposed for these authors. I expect many will be MR members.

While the above sound like good ideas, they aren't really genres since two of the list awards are for SF/Fantasy. Any NYT best seller will fall into a genre.
That's why I was only in favor of major awards, such as Nobel Prize winning authors, or Pulitzer Prize winning books. Not genre specific awards. But if it is an unrepresented genre we are after . . .

Quote:
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So, what about:

1. Westerns
2. War
3. Folktales
4. Mythical
5. Poetry

Any other ideas?
Westerns certainly is a new genre. It does not float my boat, but than neither do some of the existing genre.

War fiction? Not sure what that would be.

Folktales and Mythical to me it would seem in practice would be giving another month to Fantasy.

Poetry again a currently unrepresented genre.

Some possible others

Drama, i.e. written for stage performance

Historical fiction, possibly including alternate histories, but excluding science fiction type technology (e.g. time machines) or fantasy (e.g. magic or mythical creatures)

The only way to settle this is probably you to step in as the grand poobah. Not that it is likely to ever be settled to the satisfaction of all.


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Originally Posted by VioletVal View Post
I mentioned this earlier: historical fiction.
Edited to reflect the fact that the above appeared while I was typing. Credit to whom credit is due.

Last edited by Hamlet53; 07-23-2011 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:26 PM   #297
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Not that it is likely to ever be settled to the satisfaction of all.
Truer words were never spoken.

BOb
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:34 PM   #298
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The only way to settle this is probably you to step in as the grand poobah. Not that it is likely to ever be settled to the satisfaction of all.
I agree. As I said before, I'm fine with whatever is decided, but I will put in one more word for keeping a second classic. I think, though perhaps not a majority, that there is enough support for a second classic that it shouldn't change.

However, if it is decided that it must, here are my suggestions:

Nobel Author/Pulitzer Novel - The book must be by a Nobel-winning author or be a Pulitzer-winning book (these are the big literature awards and while there are plenty others, many are genre....to make it simple we keep it to the two big awards)

Drama - By this I mean simply drama-themed books, not plays. There are MANY great drama books that wouldn't fit in any category we have. "Drama" is simply a (mostly) realistic story.

Adventure - Books that include travelling, daring and courageous acts, journeys, etc.
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Old 07-23-2011, 05:48 PM   #299
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I agree. As I said before, I'm fine with whatever is decided, but I will put in one more word for keeping a second classic. I think, though perhaps not a majority, that there is enough support for a second classic that it shouldn't change.
It was dirty tactics for someone to claim a consensus that didn't exist, in favor of eliminating a classic month. It bugs me that it might be successful. I still think that it's important to appeal to the minority element among MR readers, i.e., those who don't like SFF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer
However, if it is decided that it must, here are my suggestions:

Nobel Author/Pulitzer Novel - The book must be by a Nobel-winning author or be a Pulitzer-winning book (these are the big literature awards and while there are plenty others, many are genre....to make it simple we keep it to the two big awards)
Can I suggest adding the Man Booker Prize (or just the Booker, for earlier years) to the list? We don't want to be too Yankocentric. But why do I think that literary prize winners won't be very appealing to the non-classic crowd either?

ETA: In looking over the list, there's six months devoted to lighter fiction: mystery, horror, thriller, SFF, romance. Plus wild card months that can easily end up in that category. And then there's humor, and last time that was a SF option. Can we keep the remaining months to serious fiction/nonfiction? That is, if we lose a classic month, make sure to replace it with something as difficult and dreary?

Last edited by issybird; 07-24-2011 at 08:52 AM. Reason: Additional thoughts
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Old 07-23-2011, 06:16 PM   #300
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Please vote in the initial poll and move this discussion there:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=144012
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