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Old 07-21-2011, 03:07 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by issybird View Post
My issue with this is that it's not a wholesale reevaluation of the categories, it's people trying to tweak it at the margins to make it more to their own taste. The difficulty is that tweaks it away from the interests of others in the process. I don't think having two months of classics invalid, just as I don't think having two months of SF/F is invalid. One appeals to me, one doesn't, but I think both, especially in tandem, help the book club appeal to as wide a range as possible.

Why a poll just about two months' of classics? Why not a poll for the whole megillah? Because you can't poll for everything, all the time. The list can't be ideal for everyone, and some will never be happy. This is just my opinion, but I don't think the current list is broke.

Obviously one can share an opinion with anyone, no matter what his or her perceived honesty; the opinion is valid if honest in itself. But when you cite your own opinion in support of another, it's taken as part of the same campaign. Unfortunately, said campaign involved misrepresenting what was said in the thread, ignoring (your word) what earlier posters said and claiming a consensus that didn't exist. Sometimes you have to be picky about your standard bearer. I didn't like having my opinion consigned to oblivion, either.
I suggested the poll about the 2 months because:
1. That is what is currently being called into question.
2. It is the only genre listed twice.

As for your other statement, did you actually read what I said, or did you put your Jon blinders on? At no point did I say that everyone, or even most people wanted a change...I said that I wanted a change and that there were others who agreed...therefore I felt a poll would help solve the issue. How else can we get a more fair representation of what the group wants as a whole.

This constant bickering, especially where Jon is concerned, is ridiculous. This book club is supposed to be a fun way to connect with other readers, share books we love and try out books we might not otherwise try on our own.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:34 PM   #242
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As for your other statement, did you actually read what I said, or did you put your Jon blinders on? At no point did I say that everyone, or even most people wanted a change...I said that I wanted a change and that there were others who agreed...therefore I felt a poll would help solve the issue. How else can we get a more fair representation of what the group wants as a whole.
Scratching my head a bit; at no point did I suggest or imply you said anything such thing, and in response to your rather rude question, I did read your post, but you evidently didn't like the answer you got. To reiterate, my point is that we can't have a poll for every issue that comes down the pike. it's inefficient and contentious and then the phrase, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. "What the group wants as a whole" almost certainly will narrow the appeal of the book club to the barest possible majority. See Hamlet53 below.

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Left to general popular preferences, as judged for instance from the Hey!! Let's get some action going! What are we reading? thread we would likely have at least ten to eleven months of Sci-Fi/Fantasy/Crime/Mystery, and one month of everything else. Frankly, at least for me, that would pretty much end my participation. And I am not sure it would that much increase discussion participation by others who at present do not do so.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:51 PM   #243
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You mean of we change December to something other than classics you will no longer complain about anything? And please check out the current category for January: Current list for year.
There goes my idea. But I'm up for just about anything that's not already in use.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:53 PM   #244
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Nyssa, why not start a thread with the poll? Then if it's decided that classic for December is to go, it can be decided what to do after that. That sounds good to me.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:59 PM   #245
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Scratching my head a bit; at no point did I suggest or imply you said anything such thing, and in response to your rather rude question, I did read your post, but you evidently didn't like the answer you got. To reiterate, my point is that we can't have a poll for every issue that comes down the pike. it's inefficient and contentious and then the phrase, "tyranny of the majority" comes to mind. "What the group wants as a whole" almost certainly will narrow the appeal of the book club to the barest possible majority. See Hamlet53 below.
So I should have ignored where you said

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But when you cite your own opinion in support of another, it's taken as part of the same campaign.
You didn't like what Jon had to say and you implied that I was saying the exact same thing. Therefore, it did not appear to me that you had actually read what I had to say past the "I agree with Jon" part.

As for the poll, I really do not understand how asking people for their opinion narrows the appeal of the book club yet having two months with the same genre does not.

Out of curiosity, how were the genres chosen in the first place?


Edit: This was posted while I was typing...


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Nyssa, why not start a thread with the poll? Then if it's decided that classic for December is to go, it can be decided what to do after that. That sounds good to me.
Because its not "my" book club. I believe that the senior member(s) should be in charge of something like that, and if I am correct that would be PilotBob. If he decides to put up a poll I will be more than happy to participate.

Last edited by Nyssa; 07-21-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:27 PM   #246
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Ok, except there are some of us who would like to see a change. So, we should automatically be ignored just because Jon made the suggestion?

This is not the first time I have said that I would like to see another genre to replace the 2nd "classic" option and I am open to trying just about anything else.

Also, I have suggested a poll, so if the results come back that more people want to keep things the way they are then so be it.
wot Nyssa said.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:35 PM   #247
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or what about prize winners (like Pulitzer or Booker or whatever over the years)?
That's an intriguing thought. A month of Pulitzer or Nobel prize winners.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:45 PM   #248
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That's an intriguing thought. A month of Pulitzer or Nobel prize winners.
That is a cool idea..My only concern would be cost.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:49 PM   #249
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...What about ... prize winners (like Pulitzer or Booker ....
Not a bad idea. If not for 2011, then certainly an for 2012.
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Old 07-21-2011, 09:53 PM   #250
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Jon, truth be told, you are the primary person that thinks we haven't defined "classic" properly and thinks we should change our definition.

Then, you complain that you don't want another classic month because "we" can't agree on what that means, when you are the primary person that brings up that discussion each time we hit a classic month.

Bottom line, I don't mind changing it, but if we don't want classic to repeat why do we want non-fiction to repeat?

Classic is listed twice because there is a HUGE selection of classics and most if not all are in the public domain which allows for people to participate without having to buy a book they might not like.

BOb
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:16 PM   #251
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Not a bad idea. If not for 2011, then certainly an for 2012.
Why not a prize winner regardless of the prize and year?
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:21 PM   #252
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Classic is listed twice because there is a HUGE selection of classics and most if not all are in the public domain which allows for people to participate without having to buy a book they might not like.

BOb
Given your reasoning for a 2nd classic, how about free? Meaning, any book that is free at the time of the nomination. That would include current eBooks authors/publishers are giving away, PD, CC, etc. That would still be a wide enough category with plenty to choose from.
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Old 07-21-2011, 10:47 PM   #253
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Given your reasoning for a 2nd classic, how about free? Meaning, any book that is free at the time of the nomination. That would include current eBooks authors/publishers are giving away, PD, CC, etc. That would still be a wide enough category with plenty to choose from.
Jon, since I usually put search links in for the threads, I'll make a comment about this.

"Free" is not always "free" for everyone. A Kindle freebie is not free for me (I have a Sony and don't want to format shift, etc..) Geographic restrictions have made past freebies not available for all members that were participating in our nomination threads. I don't always know what is restricted unless another members posts about it being geo restricted for them.
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<snip> what about prize winners (like Pulitzer or Booker or whatever over the years)?<snip>
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That's an intriguing thought. A month of Pulitzer or Nobel prize winners.
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That is a cool idea..My only concern would be cost.
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Not a bad idea. If not for 2011, then certainly an for 2012.
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Why not a prize winner regardless of the prize and year?
Looking at the above comments, it seems like a possible new category is agreeable.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:04 AM   #254
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Looking at the above comments, it seems like a possible new category is agreeable.
When you put it that way, it does seem like prize winning books could be the December category.
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:43 AM   #255
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As for the poll, I really do not understand how asking people for their opinion narrows the appeal of the book club yet having two months with the same genre does not.
It seems to me that there may be two months of the same genre intentionally, for a purpose. I am not sure who made the initial list or how it was devised. However, looking over the list, perhaps classic was listed twice because it is so different from all the other genres, while some of the others are quite similar, such as mystery/crime, thriller/suspense and horror, as well as sci-fi and fantasy.

Then, since we're throwing everything out here, there are other missing categories, such as drama, and adventure, that I'd personally love to see on the list. No list will ever be perfect, but I think whoever made this one did a pretty good job considering all our diverse tastes. I definitely do not feel that only two months of classics is overdoing it.

I also like the idea of a Nobel/Pulitzer prize-winning category though - what say we combine sci-fi/fantasy into one category and replace the other with prize winners?
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