Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book Readers > Amazon Kindle

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-20-2008, 06:08 PM   #16
NatCh
Gizmologist
NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NatCh's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,605
Karma: 926222
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN
Device: Nook STGR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate the great View Post
Actually, one symbol is zero and the other symbol is one. Power (on and off) is a binary state, so someone decided to use a binary symbol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
Well, it is not really a line and a circle. This is the digital age and it is a 1 and a 0. 1 is on while 0 is off.
Perhaps so. But I've never seen a font where the 0 is perfectly round. I also suspect the intent was to make it symbols, rather than glyphs, to be international (though numerals are pretty international these days, so perhaps not), but in any case, I rather doubt it's meant to be 1 and 0.

Besides, the average person knows exponentially less about binary than they do about electricity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaleDe View Post
When a computer only uses 1's and 0's it might be difficult to imagine how it would make a rude gesture but now I have a picture.
Look at the version where the line and circle are juxtaposed, so that the line points upward, breaking the circle ... it does look something like a rude gesture, now that it's pointed out.

Of course it's also another point against the 0 1 theory.
NatCh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008, 07:31 PM   #17
Taylor514ce
Actively passive.
Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Taylor514ce ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Taylor514ce's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,042
Karma: 449920
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: US
Device: Sony PRS-505/LC
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_symbol

and for really interesting reading:

http://eetd.lbl.gov/Controls/publica...pubsindex.html

A perhaps somewhat depressing personal detail is that no, I didn't need to perform a web search for these... it's come up in my line of work.

Last edited by Taylor514ce; 03-20-2008 at 07:37 PM.
Taylor514ce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008, 10:10 PM   #18
Cthulhu
Technologist
Cthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura aboutCthulhu has a spectacular aura about
 
Cthulhu's Avatar
 
Posts: 485
Karma: 4479
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: I'm between Cities
Device: SONY Reader PRS-500
Am still trying to figure out why tech. manufacturers make such a big deal out of touting that their products are "Peanut Butter FREE." Really, is quality control so bad that not putting delicious smashed nutmeat into a circuit panel is a mark of distinction?!

@ Natch:
The way I saw it--once I figured it out--was that the line represented the very simplified circuit line, while the open circle was akin to the little open circuit symbol that looks like a 'c' what's been to France and now puts on airs.
Cthulhu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008, 10:11 PM   #19
schulzmc
Zealot
schulzmc doesn't litterschulzmc doesn't litter
 
Posts: 100
Karma: 112
Join Date: Nov 2007
Device: Kindle
For more support for the "1" and "0" view check out:

http://www.historyofthebutton.com/20...sign-by-habit/

http://www.ixda.org/discuss.php?post=26596
schulzmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 12:23 AM   #20
pilotbob
Grand Sorcerer
pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pilotbob's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,487
Karma: 11248282
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatCh View Post
The Discovery Channel narrator made a bone-headed comment about one day maybe the air that runs the motor that runs the compressor that compresses the air will get us true perpetual motion. It's interesting that a guy who works with the Discovery Channel would know the word but not know such a comment would open him to ridicule.
I think that show was from 2004 or so... Plus it is created in the UK.

BUt, your right. Isn't that one of the "laws" of physics.

"There's no such thing as a free lunch."

The could add a compressor to the drive shaft, but it would add extra drag to the engine so it would have to work harder... I bet if you calculate it then it would be a net loss. But, I could see them doing something like hybrid's do today with regenerative braking. Use that inertia to run some compressors to replace some of the air during breaking.

I also would want to get a higher speed compressor for my house rather than waiting 4 hours for the thing to fill. But, I guess is it really gets an 850 mile range per "fill" then it should be ok. Or course, I assume the mean full air pressure and petrol.

BOb

PS: I don't see how it will be "zero" polution either. I guess unless the fuel they talk about using to warm the air is clean burining like natural gas or propane or something... but doesn't combusion give of CO2 by definition?
pilotbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 03:06 AM   #21
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,542
Karma: 40125051
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
BUt, your right. Isn't that one of the "laws" of physics.
It's the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which basically says that something like the conversion of the potential energy of compressed air into mechanical energy can never be 100% efficient - there will always be a certain proportion of the energy which is lost in the form of heat.

Quote:
PS: I don't see how it will be "zero" polution either. I guess unless the fuel they talk about using to warm the air is clean burining like natural gas or propane or something... but doesn't combusion give of CO2 by definition?
No, it depends what it is that you're burning. If you burn a hydrocarbon (like natural gas or propane) you'll get CO2, but burn, say, hydrogen, and what you get is water vapour:

2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 11:31 AM   #22
NatCh
Gizmologist
NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NatCh's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,605
Karma: 926222
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN
Device: Nook STGR
Thanks for all the links on the power symbol, y'all.

From looking through them, I've concluded that the IEC folks picked something that made sense to them, which may or may not have been based on anything concrete, and other folks have come up with ways to make it make sense to them (such as the binary thing).

This conclusion leaves me conveniently free to continue to get irate about it as I please.



Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
I think that show was from 2004 or so... Plus it is created in the UK.
Well, there goes that theory, and it was a fun one too!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
BUt, your right. Isn't that one of the "laws" of physics.

"There's no such thing as a free lunch."
I think Newton phrased it a bit differently, but yeah, that's more or less what I was thinking of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
PS: I don't see how it will be "zero" polution either. I guess unless the fuel they talk about using to warm the air is clean burining like natural gas or propane or something... but doesn't combusion give of CO2 by definition?
It's only "zero pollution" when it's running solely on it's air tanks. It's got two modes, you see, air only, and ICE assisted air (where a small ICE compresses air for it to run on) for longer distance driving.

Of course that leaves aside the question of the pollution generated in compressing the air in the first place, or in generating the electricity to run the compressor. The nit-pickin' version of the claim would be that the car generates no pollution itself, so long as you don't use the on-board ICE to compress more air.

That's the 800 pound gorilla in the room of electric car enthusiasts: the electricity has to be generated somewhere, which mostly means fossil fuel burning, and you have energy lost at three points, generation, transmission, and actual use. You can throw storage losses into that bag too.

I'm not saying that I think it's less efficient than an ICE, I'm just saying nobody seems to even want to acknowledge that question, let alone answer it. And questions that get ignored like that often turn out to be ones who's answers are at a minimum unpleasant or worse in direct contradiction to the claim being advanced. The longer it goes unaddressed the more I wonder about it.

It's like the "'Adding ethanol makes gas burn 10% cleaner!' -- 'But you burn 20% more of it to go the same distance.' -- 'But it burns cleaner!'" thing.

I figured out mathematically some years ago that making cleaner burning gas is a losing proposition unless it keeps the same efficiency, or drops more in emissions than it does in efficiency. Work doesn't move closer to home just because you have to burn more gas to get there, and if you burn enough extra gas to more than offset the reduction in emissions, then you have a net increase in emissions. It's high-school algebra.
NatCh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 12:14 PM   #23
pilotbob
Grand Sorcerer
pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pilotbob's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,487
Karma: 11248282
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatCh View Post
It's only "zero pollution" when it's running solely on it's air tanks. It's got two modes, you see, air only, and ICE assisted air (where a small ICE compresses air for it to run on) for longer distance driving.
I thought the ICE was to go faster than 35MPH... it heats the air so it will decompress with more force or something?

Anyway... agreed about all the stuff you said about using energy to compress the air. But, one of the shows says it takes about 3 mins to fill the tank at a station which will cost about $2 in electric power... and that will bring you 800 miles. Seems like it still will create less polution. And, if those filling stations use solar/wind to run the compressors then it would truly be 100% zero pollution. Also 100% renewable.

BOb
pilotbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 12:44 PM   #24
NatCh
Gizmologist
NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NatCh's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,605
Karma: 926222
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN
Device: Nook STGR
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
I thought the ICE was to go faster than 35MPH... it heats the air so it will decompress with more force or something?
I think you're right, there ... but it had something to do with greater distance too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
Anyway... agreed about all the stuff you said about using energy to compress the air. But, one of the shows says it takes about 3 mins to fill the tank at a station which will cost about $2 in electric power... and that will bring you 800 miles. Seems like it still will create less polution. And, if those filling stations use solar/wind to run the compressors then it would truly be 100% zero pollution. Also 100% renewable.
I'll point out that cost of electrical power and its associated generation emissions (this topic needs easier to spell words) aren't necessarily related. Most power generation in the U.S. is coal, I believe, and while it's cheap, it sure ain't clean.

Solar power for the Air stations would be an excellent idea in some places (I've developed a slowly growing skepticism of wind power, thanks to other discussions here), but I think there'd always have to be a grid connection at least as a back up.

I'm pretty interested in the thermionic drive concept. These folks in Gibraltar have come up with a way to convert heat directly to electricity, at about an 80% of ideal efficiency, and it doesn't seem to matter what method you use, so long as it makes heat. They've apparently already taken out a patent on using their chips to power a car, but there hasn't been any significant movement on them for quite some time.
NatCh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 01:05 PM   #25
pilotbob
Grand Sorcerer
pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.pilotbob ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
pilotbob's Avatar
 
Posts: 19,487
Karma: 11248282
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampa, FL USA
Device: Kindle Touch
Quote:
Originally Posted by NatCh View Post
II'll point out that cost of electrical power and its associated generation emissions (this topic needs easier to spell words) aren't necessarily related. Most power generation in the U.S. is coal, I believe, and while it's cheap, it sure ain't clean.
So true. Have you read the Solar Power Grand Plan?

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...nd-plan&page=1

BOb
pilotbob is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 01:11 PM   #26
TallMomof2
Kindlephilia
TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.TallMomof2 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
TallMomof2's Avatar
 
Posts: 2,005
Karma: 1108879
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Snowpacolypse 2010
Device: Amazon K4, Fire, Droid 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
It's the 2nd law of thermodynamics, which basically says that something like the conversion of the potential energy of compressed air into mechanical energy can never be 100% efficient - there will always be a certain proportion of the energy which is lost in the form of heat.



No, it depends what it is that you're burning. If you burn a hydrocarbon (like natural gas or propane) you'll get CO2, but burn, say, hydrogen, and what you get is water vapour:

2H2 + O2 -> 2H2O

Ah yes, Thermodynamics, my most loved/hated course in college. And its successor, Advanced Thermodynamics. The Dean of the Engineering College taught those courses and they were rigorous.
TallMomof2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 01:17 PM   #27
HarryT
eBook Enthusiast
HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.HarryT ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
HarryT's Avatar
 
Posts: 62,542
Karma: 40125051
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: UK
Device: PW2, iPad Retina Mini, iPhone 4, MS Surface Pro, Onyx T68, N7,
Not my favourite subject either, I have to confess .
HarryT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2008, 01:22 PM   #28
NatCh
Gizmologist
NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.NatCh ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
NatCh's Avatar
 
Posts: 11,605
Karma: 926222
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN
Device: Nook STGR
Quote:
Originally Posted by pilotbob View Post
So true. Have you read the Solar Power Grand Plan?

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...nd-plan&page=1

BOb
I hadn't seen it, thanks for the link. I've only read page one (so far) but it's got me interested enough to head for page two.
NatCh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NYT: Jeff Bezos: Kindle Books and Readers Are Separate Businesses sirbruce News 31 06-17-2009 01:58 PM
Bezos Interview on Kindle and other Amazon Ventures daffy4u News 13 12-10-2008 12:29 PM
A link to a video of Bezos and Oprah giving a presentation called Kindle Clas Jason Amazon Kindle 2 10-26-2008 12:21 AM
Jeff Bezos at "D": Some Kindle stuff rmeister0 News 21 05-29-2008 02:24 PM
Bezos letter to investors touts Kindle Daithi Amazon Kindle 2 04-23-2008 12:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:31 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.