Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-23-2011, 12:38 PM   #16
Hamlet53
Babi Yar
Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Hamlet53 ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Hamlet53's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,755
Karma: 45944891
Join Date: Mar 2009
Device: Kindle PW, Kindle Fire HDX 8.9"
I had seen the Humphrey Bogart film several times, and so was concerned about that impacting enjoyment of the book. Fortunately once I started reading it I realized that, apart from knowing that “The McGuffin” was a small statue of a bird (In an interview I once saw with Alfred Hitchcock he used the term “McGuffin” for the thing that everyone in one of his films was after; it really made no difference to the story just what the “McGuffin” was), I had no memory of the plot.

So anyway I thought it was alright. The writing wasn't that great and I thought the various characters were over drawn to the point of being caricatures. But maybe that is part of the 'hard boiled detective' genre that this novel is the archetype of. I was surprised several times, including the ending where it was revealed that it was Miss Wanderly murdered Miles Archer. So it was entertaining, but it did not make me want to read any more Hammett. I was pleased that it was so short.
Hamlet53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 12:50 PM   #17
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,545
Karma: 13104900
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
I hae and have watched the 1931 movie version. I was not overly impressed. The characters were not true to the book. Imagine Sam Spade leering (and I do mean leering) at every girl that walks by...

To understand the Wilmer character, look up the yiddish term gonsel (slipped into the 41 movie as gunsel).
Ralph Sir Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 01:17 PM   #18
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,934
Karma: 94158280
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano. Other devices gathering dust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
I hae and have watched the 1931 movie version. I was not overly impressed. The characters were not true to the book. Imagine Sam Spade leering (and I do mean leering) at every girl that walks by...

To understand the Wilmer character, look up the yiddish term gonsel (slipped into the 41 movie as gunsel).
Was there nudity in that version? Does it make clear O'Shaughnessy and Spade were sleeping together? I know the strip search scene was suppose to be in that one, but I don't know how much was actually shown onscreen. "Lewdness" is what earned the movie its ban after the code came in.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 01:43 PM   #19
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,545
Karma: 13104900
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
Was there nudity in that version? Does it make clear O'Shaughnessy and Spade were sleeping together? I know the strip search scene was suppose to be in that one, but I don't know how much was actually shown onscreen. "Lewdness" is what earned the movie its ban after the code came in.
I only watched it once, I'll have to rewatch it tonight. Certainly no nude scenes stuck out in my memory.
Ralph Sir Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:18 PM   #20
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,934
Karma: 94158280
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano. Other devices gathering dust.
In the '41 film, a question is raised as to whether O'Shaughnessy has pocketed some of the money that Gutman paid him. Spade looks at her once, then looks back and says with confidence that Gutman palmed it. The scene as well as Spade's certainty makes little sense without the complete search of Ms. O'Shaughnessy's person that occurred in the book.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:24 PM   #21
Mike L
Wizard
Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Mike L's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,385
Karma: 3793261
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Device: Kindle 3, Nexus 7
Getting back to the book (as opposed to films and radio series) .....

One thing I always found hard to swallow was the need for a "fall guy""

Quote:
"The police have got to have somebody they can stick for those three murders ... The way to handle them is to toss them a victim, somebody they can hang the works on."
This is a central part of Spade's strategy. If he and Gutman can between them decide on a "victim", the police will accept it, and take the pressure off the others. It has to be part of the deal for handing over the falcon.

So, here we have Gutman - a notorious villain - and Spade - who is still himself a suspect in at least one of the murders, and we're asked to believe that the police (and subsequently a jury) will accept their word for who the real murderer is.

Doesn't sound very likely, does it?
Mike L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:32 PM   #22
Mike L
Wizard
Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Mike L ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Mike L's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,385
Karma: 3793261
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Device: Kindle 3, Nexus 7
Talking of the "fall guy" scene, I'd like to nominate as the best line in the book Gutman's speech when he agrees that it should be Wilmer:

Quote:
"Well, Wilmer, I'm sorry to lose you, and I want you to know that I couldn't be fonder of you if you were my own son; but - well, by Gad - if you lose a son, it's possible to get another - and there's only one Maltese falcon"
Mike L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:35 PM   #23
GA Russell
Stamps last undefeated!
GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GA Russell's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,494
Karma: 12629895
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Device: jetBook Lite, Kindle 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward View Post
To understand the Wilmer character, look up the yiddish term gonsel (slipped into the 41 movie as gunsel).
Ralph, the word gunsel is used in the book.
GA Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:37 PM   #24
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,934
Karma: 94158280
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano. Other devices gathering dust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Getting back to the book (as opposed to films and radio series) .....

One thing I always found hard to swallow was the need for a "fall guy""



This is a central part of Spade's strategy. If he and Gutman can between them decide on a "victim", the police will accept it, and take the pressure off the others. It has to be part of the deal for handing over the falcon.

So, here we have Gutman - a notorious villain - and Spade - who is still himself a suspect in at least one of the murders, and we're asked to believe that the police (and subsequently a jury) will accept their word for who the real murderer is.

Doesn't sound very likely, does it?
Actually, it does. The "fall guy" scenario assumes less than honorable motives on the part of the police. I don't know how valid that assumption was concerning 1920s San Francisco, but I know that even today in many places many cases are miraculously cleared from the books when a suitable suspect arrives on the doorstep of the police department. It makes the records look good.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 02:51 PM   #25
sun surfer
in this great future
sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sun surfer's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,696
Karma: 16298422
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: ipad mini & sony 950
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Getting back to the book (as opposed to films and radio series) .....

One thing I always found hard to swallow was the need for a "fall guy""



This is a central part of Spade's strategy. If he and Gutman can between them decide on a "victim", the police will accept it, and take the pressure off the others. It has to be part of the deal for handing over the falcon.

So, here we have Gutman - a notorious villain - and Spade - who is still himself a suspect in at least one of the murders, and we're asked to believe that the police (and subsequently a jury) will accept their word for who the real murderer is.

Doesn't sound very likely, does it?
I was fine with that part of it since the book wasn't overly realistic to begin with. And that brings me to one of my favourite aspects of the book - the ambiguity of if Spade would follow through with that or not. It seems as he's plotting it (with my 21st century sensibility knowing how these things work out in most recent stories/tv shows/movies of this type) that it's only to get them to confess. It well could have been, but I love that the author leaves it deliberately vague - if things had gone differently perhaps Sam may well have colluded with Gutman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Talking of the "fall guy" scene, I'd like to nominate as the best line in the book Gutman's speech when he agrees that it should be Wilmer:

"Well, Wilmer, I'm sorry to lose you, and I want you to know that I couldn't be fonder of you if you were my own son; but - well, by Gad - if you lose a son, it's possible to get another - and there's only one Maltese falcon"
I loved that line too.
sun surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 03:12 PM   #26
Ralph Sir Edward
Gentleman & Cynic
Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ralph Sir Edward ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ralph Sir Edward's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,545
Karma: 13104900
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: 5 generation native Texan
Device: BeBook/Openinkpot, CYbook 3rd gen awaiting RTF software upgrade
Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Russell View Post
Ralph, the word gunsel is used in the book.
my bad, both cases gunsel was used to get past the censors...
Ralph Sir Edward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 03:38 PM   #27
bookwormat
Junior Member
bookwormat began at the beginning.
 
Posts: 7
Karma: 10
Join Date: Apr 2011
Device: Kindle 3G
Quote:
Originally Posted by WT Sharpe View Post
Actually, it does. The "fall guy" scenario assumes less than honorable motives on the part of the police.
Maybe. But giving the police, which knows nothing about the falcon and suspect Spade, a pissed boy who knows the whole story and is willing to talk - That does not seem like a clever idea to me.
bookwormat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 03:54 PM   #28
GA Russell
Stamps last undefeated!
GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.GA Russell ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
GA Russell's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,494
Karma: 12629895
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Raleigh, NC
Device: jetBook Lite, Kindle 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike L View Post
Maybe what I remember is that the credit was removed as a result of his activism - rather than him being fired as the writer.
Mike, that sounds plausible. I can tell you that the actor who played Spade, Howard Duff, was replaced because of his politics.

By the way, I once visited Dashiell Hammett's grave at Arlington.
GA Russell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 03:55 PM   #29
Nyssa
Series Addict
Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Nyssa ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Nyssa's Avatar
 
Posts: 5,458
Karma: 53780493
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Florida, USA
Device: Kindle 3 (Wifi Only), Kindle Paperwhite
Quote:
Originally Posted by bookwormat View Post
Maybe. But giving the police, which knows nothing about the falcon and suspect Spade, a pissed boy who knows the whole story and is willing to talk - That does not seem like a clever idea to me.
I don't think Sam expected Wilmer to speak. I think he expected Wilmer to say or do something that would make himself look even more guilty, which is what happened at the end when he killed Gutman.

(Are we expected to hide big spoilers? I don't remember the rules).

Last edited by Nyssa; 06-23-2011 at 04:22 PM. Reason: Removed spoiler tags.
Nyssa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2011, 04:05 PM   #30
WT Sharpe
Grand Muckity-Muck
WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.WT Sharpe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
WT Sharpe's Avatar
 
Posts: 31,934
Karma: 94158280
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Chesapeake, VA, USA
Device: Kindle Paperwhite, iPad Air, iPod Nano. Other devices gathering dust.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyssa View Post
I don't think Sam expected Wilmer to speak. I think he expected Wilmer to say or do something that would make himself look even more guilty,
Spoiler:
which is what happened at the end when he killed Gutman.
Which could hardly have come as a surprise to Spade, since, knowing Wilmer's rash and volatile nature, he set about to drive a wedge between Wilmer and Gutman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyssa View Post
(Are we expected to hide big spoilers? I don't remember the rules).
I don't think so; not in the discussion thread. In the nominations thread, yes.
WT Sharpe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mystery and Crime Hammett, Dashiell: Zigzags of Treachery v1 17 jan 2009 mtravellerh Kindle Books 1 01-21-2009 08:35 AM
Mystery and Crime Hammett, Dashiell: Arson Plus v1 2 dec 2008 mtravellerh Kindle Books 2 12-02-2008 09:55 AM
Mystery and Crime Hammett, Dashiell: Arson Plus v1 2 dec 2008 mtravellerh IMP Books 0 12-02-2008 05:11 AM
Mystery and Crime Hammett, Dashiell: Arson Plus v1 2 dec 2008 mtravellerh BBeB/LRF Books 0 12-02-2008 05:09 AM
Mystery and Crime Hammett, Dashiell: The Assistant Murderer v1 19. nov 2008 mtravellerh Kindle Books 0 11-19-2008 04:45 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:05 AM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.