Register Guidelines E-Books Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   MobileRead Forums > E-Book General > Reading Recommendations > Book Clubs

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-21-2011, 02:25 AM   #31
beppe
Grand Sorcerer
beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,161
Karma: 81026524
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ea View Post
... People end up without their clothes numerous times, and it's usually highly embarrasing for them - why?
...
And what's up with all those naked women at the ball? It's probably just a reflection of gender and gender roles of a time past, but it kept annoying me like a pebble in my shoe.
...
great post with many hints for discussion. I pick up this one for the moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
...
I was initially impressed that Bulgakov included two fleshed out female characters in the text, Margarita and Natasha, who had some agency in their lives.
...
The nakedness. Of women in particular, and the most disturbing case, the nakedness of Marguerite.

When her state of exaltation evaporates, Marguerite is embarrassed by it, Wolan perceives it and offers her what to cover herself. It is one of the key passages of the plot. Therefore, nakedness is not just a gratuitous element of provocation or despise, throw in to impress or to be humorist, but it has an important role.

I think that nakedness is associated by Bulgakov to a manifestation of exaltation. Again I think, he activates a theatrical device, like a musical theme associated to a character.
beppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 02:54 AM   #32
beppe
Grand Sorcerer
beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,161
Karma: 81026524
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ea View Post
One thing that irritated me a bit, was the way women were described in comparison to men. There's a bit too many pretty secretaries with whom the men have affairs because their wives are haggard harridans.
.....
It's probably just a reflection of gender and gender roles of a time past, but it kept annoying me like a pebble in my shoe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
I understand your feelings about women in the text.
...
Then I realized how depressing it was there were only two female characters who were characters and not puppets in the plot machinations.
Ladies, I use your posts to introduce mine that among other subjects is centered around yours.


Kevin Moss at Middlebury College has counted 71 characters in the novel (thank you Hoyt Clagwell, do come in). I have few considerations to share on 3 of them.
Homeless, Master and Marguerite are the human characters that stand up in the novel. The two guys are one or more steps back from the girl. I have the impression that one of their functions is expedient to introduce each other. Homeless to introduce Master, and Master to bring Margherita in the story. But not only.

They are the ones that are more directly touched by the arcane. Homeless has been touched violently and directly. Master has been touched very deeply, in a mysterious and undisclosed way: he knows everything already before the events. It is not given to us to know when, how or why.

All three characters suffer of existential problems. Margherita has already solved her own when she enters in the story. By finding her love for Master she gives a sense to her life. For the two guys the situation is quite different. They are perfectly impotent so that they are only capable of ending up in a mental clinic. They find protection and solace to their torments, and nothing more, except the metamorphoses of Homeless and the dull resignation for Master. The guys do not find in themselves the strength to bridge the gap between the real world and the arcane that has touched them. On the contrary, Marguerita jumps on the first occasion she has to enter the magic world. She is brave, she is moved by love. The force flows through her.

Here, Bulgakov is magistral and unexpectedly contemporary. He stages, around the adventures of Marguerite, the revenge of the women against the men. Up to this point, he has represented all the women in the story either as objects of pleasure, lust and vanity or as nagging old bitches. Subjects of derision and scorn, as their partners. But with Marguerita, through her attitudes and actions, Bulgakov represents the noble feminine values of love, compassion, generosity, courage, intuition, trust in herself and sacrifice. Not only she jumps from the real world into the arcane without a second thought, but she wins through her extraordinary feminine values. The pages of her dealings with Woland are the more intense and touching.They show Marguerita in her depth, and reveal the generous, respectful and noble character of Woland. He was and still is an angel, the best, the favorite. A discussion of Wolan would be interesting. He is possibly the one with more relieve, lights, shadows and depth. Together with PP, maybe.
With Margherita Bulgakov shows a marvelous and modern understanding of women and of their role in understanding the complex reality and in harmonizing with it through sacrifice and generosity, and also having fun in the process. Men can only refuse it and subtract themselves from it and cry about the adverse destiny (see what happens with Marguerite's neighbor). What a reversal from the crowd in the theater. What a lesson. Of course she has to become a witch to do it, but just as a temporary mean. With a magic cream. So feminine. Go Bulgakov, you do know.

I feel that Master has the function of a binding thread among the various elements. He brings Margherita in the novel. Through his manuscript, he brings in the figure and the story of PP. In the end he, his repose, a sleep guarded by Marguerita, are the expedients of the final act. Funny character, essential but just sketched. Blessed by the love of Margherita but somehow blind to it when he is with her and dying of need when she is not. Very Russian. Maybe Bulgakov himself?

Who is PP? He also has huge existential problems. How critical he is to the novel? To him are dedicated the best pages. Is he human or is he arcane? Is he real or he exists only in the manuscript and in the tale of the Professor? The doubt comes as he is is still around when the black horses bring the brigade to the end. Does Margherita give him the much desired end? Finally, after two thousand years of existential anguish. Will he be with the much desired philosopher or in the darkness?

Last edited by beppe; 06-21-2011 at 04:59 AM. Reason: cleaning typing errors
beppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:00 AM   #33
Ea
Wizard
Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ea's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 5169119
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad 2|iPhone 4|Sony 600
That was interesting, Beppe. I'll throw a thought in there; in Margarita I see a masculine, extraverted activity - she is a "doer" that complements the Master's introvert, feminine passiveness.
Without Margarita no action and no change. In that she is on the same side as Woland. They both have a role as agents of change.
Ea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:05 AM   #34
Ea
Wizard
Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ea's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 5169119
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad 2|iPhone 4|Sony 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppe View Post
... Funny character [the Master], essential but just sketched. Blessed by the love of Margherita but somehow blind to it when he is with her and dying of need when she is not. Very Russian. Maybe Bulgakov himself?
I was thinking while reading the introduction of the Master that it read as a self portrait.
Ea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:12 AM   #35
Ea
Wizard
Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ea's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 5169119
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad 2|iPhone 4|Sony 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppe View Post
Who is PP? He also has huge existential problems. How critical he is to the novel? To him are dedicated the best pages. Is he human or is he arcane? Is he real or he exists only in the manuscript and in the tale of the Professor? The doubt comes as he is is still around when the black horses bring the brigade to the end. Does Margherita give him the much desired end? Finally, after two thousand years of existential anguish. Will he be with the much desired philosopher or in the darkness?
To me, Pontius Pilatus is the primary character, and the novel is about the redemption of him and the forgiveness of his sin of cowardice by God/Yeshua. As far as I remember the ending, I got the impression that he is saved. His punishment was 2000 years of anguish, which is over when the Master calls out (and finishes his story).

Makes me think... We have two pairs, the Margarita/Master and Woland/Yeshua - active agents of change/passive and letting themselves be changed.
Ea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:30 AM   #36
fantasyfan
Guru
fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
fantasyfan's Avatar
 
Posts: 807
Karma: 8177718
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2G Wi-Fi only, iPad, iPod Touch 3G, iPad Air
Wink

For anyone who might be interested, here's a link to a post by by Michael A. Charles of the "best" translation of M&M . He doesn't actually make a recommendation but tries to outline some of the differences between P&V and Glenny. He also provides a link to a forum which discusses the subject. His advice is that whatever the translation: " . . . you should read it anyway."

http://orangeraisin.wordpress.com/20...t-translation/

BTW: I agree that everyone should participate in the voting. I didn't vote for M&M at any point, but I believe that it has expanded my literary experience {though I think it a flawed masterpiece}. If it hadn't been voted in, I would never have bothered to read it at all and I would have missed something worth having.

Last edited by fantasyfan; 06-21-2011 at 05:42 AM.
fantasyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:34 AM   #37
fantasyfan
Guru
fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
fantasyfan's Avatar
 
Posts: 807
Karma: 8177718
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2G Wi-Fi only, iPad, iPod Touch 3G, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ea View Post
That was interesting, Beppe. I'll throw a thought in there; in Margarita I see a masculine, extraverted activity - she is a "doer" that complements the Master's introvert, feminine passiveness.
Without Margarita no action and no change. In that she is on the same side as Woland. They both have a role as agents of change.
That's a very interesting idea! I never really noted the gender reversal motif {though Margarita was far and away my favourite character}. It adds something special to the text which certainly deserves further thought.

Last edited by fantasyfan; 06-21-2011 at 07:46 AM.
fantasyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 05:34 AM   #38
beppe
Grand Sorcerer
beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,161
Karma: 81026524
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2
^Ea
You finally make me understand the parallel to Goethe's Faust. Up to now it had escaped me. Bulgakov distributes the elements of the drama through different characters, and hides them by dimming the causal succession of events. They are singles or organized in dual agents, as you so brilliantly point out. Faust role is given to Pontius Pilatus, extraneous to the action but central and essential to the story.

Actually, the first time I read the novel, years ago, it was PP drama that had fascinated me. Not this time, although the pages with him are the best in the novel.
beppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 08:22 AM   #39
beppe
Grand Sorcerer
beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,161
Karma: 81026524
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2
Quote:
Originally Posted by beppe View Post
....
Faust role is given to Pontius Pilatus, extraneous to the action but central and essential to the story.
....
Maybe not only to him. Also Homeless and the Master are striving toward ... toward something different from Faust.

Homeless and Master are redeemed to peace, so is PP.

The idea that Bulgakov fragments the Faust transposition in different characters does not disturb me. On the contrary. Goethe wrote it in a very different cultural contest from the one of Goethe, where the most coveted ideal was understanding and knowledge and the unity of theme and character was still central.

Bulgakov's times were marked by the dissolution of unity. They were the times of cubism, of futurism, just to mention one cultural movement that in Russia found great development. I find it natural that an elegant author like Bulgakov, immersed and protagonist of the culture of his times might use a sophisticated and surreal approach.
beppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 10:54 AM   #40
sun surfer
in this great future
sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.sun surfer ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
sun surfer's Avatar
 
Posts: 1,701
Karma: 16336762
Join Date: Jun 2010
Device: ipad mini & sony 950
I enjoyed the book. I think it was somewhat of a masterpiece, but as others have said, a flawed masterpiece. I am glad for having read it.

It definitely reminded me of Alice In Wonderland, with Woland/The White Rabbit taking us down the rabbit hole to this surreal place.

As others have mentioned, the general differences between the female and male characters in the book are striking. The only two well-fleshed-out females, Margarita and Natasha, both happen to be beautiful and of a perfect age. And of course they go nude a lot.

Margarita is perhaps the most interesting character of the book, though. I do think that may be because of who he was basing it on though. I think the master is based on himself (Bulgakov) and Margarita is based on his wife/lover at the time. Since he was infatuated with her, he made her into this being close to perfection, better than most all of the male characters, even though most characters in the book are male and most other females in the book are caricatures.

In this sense, the book somewhat jibes with Biblical depictions of women, where women are often lesser characters, and I wonder if this was his intention or if it was just coincidence. I feel there is also a strong similarity between Margarita and Mary Magdalene, as Margarita is the Master's strongest disciple and is a flawed person following her master. In this sense the master then is similar to Jesus, and I wonder if it was a bit of ego-stroking on Bulgakov's part since he based the master on himself.

As to Margarita being fearless, she wasn't. Certainly, she was the bravest of the bunch, but Bulgakov showed her being afraid in parts, at one point clinging to Woland's leg because she was afraid of something. I thought that was interesting. Because Bulgakov could have made her completely fearless. But he let her have some fear. I'm not sure what the reasoning was for that.

Book 1 was a bit of work, but Book 2 really takes off, in part because Margarita is such an interesting character, but also because we see her flight and the subsequent scene by the river, and then we see the ball, and those are all brilliant scenes that really captured my imagination.

I also loved the ending and still wonder over it. Why doesn't the master and Margarita get to go to heaven? Is Bulgakov atoning for his own sins, condemning himself to a blissful limbo instead of outright heaven? I read that he at first had them go to heaven but changed it to make them stay in limbo, and that he agonised over which route to give them.

I also love how complex the character of Woland is. He's certainly not pure evil, so what is he?
sun surfer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 02:22 PM   #41
arkietech
Connoisseur
arkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toysarkietech shares his or her toys
 
arkietech's Avatar
 
Posts: 64
Karma: 5918
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Device: pc
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
... I also love how complex the character of Woland is. He's certainly not pure evil, so what is he?
Thanks sun surfer! If Woland was not evil -- he really wasn't-- What was he?

Was PP evil? -- did he have any control over what he did?

What about Communism? Stalin? life in Moscow? --good thinking!
arkietech is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 02:57 PM   #42
Ea
Wizard
Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.Ea ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Ea's Avatar
 
Posts: 3,498
Karma: 5169119
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Denmark
Device: Kindle 3|iPad 2|iPhone 4|Sony 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
I also loved the ending and still wonder over it. Why doesn't the master and Margarita get to go to heaven? Is Bulgakov atoning for his own sins, condemning himself to a blissful limbo instead of outright heaven? I read that he at first had them go to heaven but changed it to make them stay in limbo, and that he agonised over which route to give them.
That surprised me too - and I don't know how to interpret it either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sun surfer View Post
I also love how complex the character of Woland is. He's certainly not pure evil, so what is he?
He is Lucifer, God's adversary and a part of God's plan. A different interpretation of the devil than simple evil. Mephistopheles in Goethe's Faust is also not pure evil. It could be interesting to look into how the devil is represented in the Russian-Orthodox church.

I can't see at all how he could be interpreted as Stalin.

I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but the name Woland reminds me of the mythical figure of Wayland (or Wieland or Völund). I know Wolund is an old German name for the devil, and my guess is that it's just a coincidence, but I still wondered whether there should be any connection anywhere.
Ea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 04:00 PM   #43
toomanybooks
Addict
toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.toomanybooks can grok the meaning of the universe.
 
toomanybooks's Avatar
 
Posts: 300
Karma: 154234
Join Date: Apr 2009
Device: Ipad, Ipod Touch, KIndle Fire
I prefer the limbo ending because going to heaven is such a cliched reward. I viewed their ending less as limbo and more as an individualized haven for them to live in peace together.
toomanybooks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 04:14 PM   #44
fantasyfan
Guru
fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.fantasyfan ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
fantasyfan's Avatar
 
Posts: 807
Karma: 8177718
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Ireland
Device: Kindle Paperwhite 2G Wi-Fi only, iPad, iPod Touch 3G, iPad Air
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ea View Post
I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but the name Woland reminds me of the mythical figure of Wayland (or Wieland or Völund). I know Wolund is an old German name for the devil, and my guess is that it's just a coincidence, but I still wondered whether there should be any connection anywhere.
I remember that point being made somewhere too.

One other idea which may or may not be relevant has to do with the image of Woland in the book.. I wonder if Bulgakov was in any way influenced by Murnaus's 1926 silent film,
Faust. The Devil there has something of the Loki-like "trickster" image and he plays with human destiny. I mention it because the Soviet Union had something of a golden age in silent cinema for a while. Of course, there may be no connection at all and possibly Bulgakov and Murnau were only drawing from the same tradition as Goethe and Gounod.
fantasyfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2011, 04:15 PM   #45
beppe
Grand Sorcerer
beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.beppe ought to be getting tired of karma fortunes by now.
 
Posts: 5,161
Karma: 81026524
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Italy
Device: Kindle3, Ipod4, IPad2
Quote:
Originally Posted by toomanybooks View Post
I prefer the limbo ending because going to heaven is such a cliched reward. I viewed their ending less as limbo and more as an individualized haven for them to live in peace together.
It is not the limbo in the sense of Christian Doctrine actually. It is a state of repose, with emphasis on being safe and pleasant.

I also like this type of ending. It is also the more economical to describe.
beppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
book club, discussion, literary, russian literature, the master and margarita

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Literary The MobileRead Literary Book Club Begins sun surfer Book Clubs 177 12-19-2012 02:18 AM
Literary The MobileRead Literary Book Club June 2011 Run-Off Vote sun surfer Book Clubs 91 06-23-2011 01:04 AM
Literary The MobileRead Literary Book Club June 2011 Vote sun surfer Book Clubs 54 05-31-2011 01:18 AM
MobileRead June 2011 Book Club Nominations pilotbob Book Clubs 85 05-29-2011 09:13 PM
Literary The MobileRead Literary Book Club June 2011 Nominations sun surfer Book Clubs 76 05-27-2011 09:46 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:21 PM.


MobileRead.com is a privately owned, operated and funded community.