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Old 06-17-2011, 02:17 PM   #1
Antioch
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Nook Touch refresh isn't really every 6 pages

I've been reading with my Nook for over a week now. And while it is my first e-Ink reader, I can't say that the momentary flashes between screens or after pulling up menus bothers me at all. As a matter of fact you tend to not notice it after a while.

This lead me to an interesting discovery that no one else seems to have yet noticed (because, well, the screen refresh flashes don't get in the way and we all ignore them): the nook touch will *always* flash at the beginning of a chapter.

I've been reading through some ePubs with properly constructed Table of Contents and every time I get to a new chapter, regardless of how many pages it's been since my last refresh, the screen will refresh. As a matter of fact, it often times refreshes the page immediately following the first page of the chapter (likely because these two pages are both the "first page" but simply don't appear that way due to my font sizing). Not only that but I can flip up and down from the first page in the chapter and, again, the nook will always refresh the display -- every time -- in spite of the fact that it has been 0 pages since a refresh (nowhere close to 6).

Can this little nugget of information be used somehow? I don't think so, but it's rather interesting and the fact that the nook has this "chapter refresh" leads me to believe that B&N was aware of the ghosting and wants to make sure you start each chapter crisp and clean.
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Old 06-17-2011, 02:22 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Antioch View Post
I've been reading with my Nook for over a week now. And while it is my first e-Ink reader, I can't say that the momentary flashes between screens or after pulling up menus bothers me at all. As a matter of fact you tend to not notice it after a while.

This lead me to an interesting discovery that no one else seems to have yet noticed (because, well, the screen refresh flashes don't get in the way and we all ignore them): the nook touch will *always* flash at the beginning of a chapter.

I've been reading through some ePubs with properly constructed Table of Contents and every time I get to a new chapter, regardless of how many pages it's been since my last refresh, the screen will refresh. As a matter of fact, it often times refreshes the page immediately following the first page of the chapter (likely because these two pages are both the "first page" but simply don't appear that way due to my font sizing). Not only that but I can flip up and down from the first page in the chapter and, again, the nook will always refresh the display -- every time -- in spite of the fact that it has been 0 pages since a refresh (nowhere close to 6).

Can this little nugget of information be used somehow? I don't think so, but it's rather interesting and the fact that the nook has this "chapter refresh" leads me to believe that B&N was aware of the ghosting and wants to make sure you start each chapter crisp and clean.


I thought I read somewhere that it will always do a refresh after a chapter ends. Hmmm where did I read that
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:36 PM   #3
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Well, it does do it, I can attest.

I view it as a sign that B&N knew about ghosting and wanted to make sure each chapter started nicely. Otherwise, why add extra logic into your code other than a simple 1-6 counter?
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Old 06-17-2011, 04:42 PM   #4
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This doesn't make sense. B&N knew about the ghosting so they said he lets make sure each chapter starts fresh, but the rest can ghost. I suspect it is more like a reset function. At the beginning of each chapter refresh the flash to make sure it stays in sync.
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Old 06-17-2011, 05:54 PM   #5
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Well, also the beginning of a chapter is where ghosting would be the most noticeable, because the first page often has a lot of blank space. So they probably wanted to make sure they look clean.

Actually, the only ghosting I have seen is on a Chapter page. I had the nnok in sleep and when I started it, the screensaver was ghosted on the chapter page and very noticeable. Of course, this a unique occasion.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:19 PM   #6
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Usually ePub files are organized in a series of XHTML files, one per chapter or section. So it sort of makes sense that when you need to load the next chapter that there would be some sort of reset going on, requiring a 'flash'.

When I played with one at the store, in fact, I never got the advertised 6 pages of flash free page turns, and I tried several different books. It seemed more random.

I actually think the attempt to eliminate 'PTF' is doomed to failure or at least lack of success, maybe even just a marketing gimmick. Given the way perception works, it is much easier to ignore something that happens predictably and regularly, as I have on my Kindles over the last couple of years. Not sure 'intermittent' flash will be as easy to ignore. And if it leads to 'ghosting', get rid of it please! But only time will tell, my new nook is waiting for me in its unopened box at home and I'm looking forward to using it.

On one of the Kobo forums they were discussing the same issue, and apparently Kobo intends to make the flash frequency configurable by # of page turns in a future update. Again, I'm not sure that will work well unless it is a simple "attempt to suppress PTF: yes/no".
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:43 PM   #7
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ptf is the one thing that almost made me not get a ereader. Honestly I don't even notice it, By the time my eyes drift from bottom to top the flash is done. Maybe I am just slow. It still really bothers some people though.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:11 PM   #8
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Given the way perception works, it is much easier to ignore something that happens predictably and regularly, as I have on my Kindles over the last couple of years. Not sure 'intermittent' flash will be as easy to ignore.
All I can say is, I couldn't bring myself to ignore the Kindle's flash, but very quickly got used to the Nook STR's flashing (hence why I own one ).
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:28 AM   #9
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Usually ePub files are organized in a series of XHTML files, one per chapter or section. So it sort of makes sense that when you need to load the next chapter that there would be some sort of reset going on, requiring a 'flash'.
Sure, but as I said, its not just the first page, or the chapter load as you said, but the second page, too. And I didn't mention it before, but if from a chapter page you go *back* to the last page of the previous chapter it'll reset the screen, too....

I find that in dimmer light (indoor) the text fuzziness from no resetting isn't too noticeable -- but in brighter light (such as outdoors) I have to force reset every page by double tapping the 'n;n button or it's too fuzzy.
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Old 06-18-2011, 06:33 AM   #10
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Sure, but as I said, its not just the first page, or the chapter load as you said, but the second page, too. And I didn't mention it before, but if from a chapter page you go *back* to the last page of the previous chapter it'll reset the screen, too....

...
I'm not seeing the refresh between chapters. There is a longer delay paging back across a chapter boundary, but no extra flash.
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Old 06-18-2011, 08:52 AM   #11
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I'm not seeing the refresh between chapters. There is a longer delay paging back across a chapter boundary, but no extra flash.
I think the extra flashing isn't at the chapter change, but rather when there's a page with an image (if it's text-only, it withholds the flash; if there's an image, it always flashes). It's simply that most books have an image in their chapter header.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:57 PM   #12
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I think the extra flashing isn't at the chapter change, but rather when there's a page with an image (if it's text-only, it withholds the flash; if there's an image, it always flashes). It's simply that most books have an image in their chapter header.
You are probably right, I haven't seen any flashing on chapter breaks, but my books didn't have any images on the first chapter page. However, on the very first pages of the book there were some images (copyright logos and that stuff) and it kept flashing on each page.
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Old 06-18-2011, 01:30 PM   #13
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Sure, but as I said, its not just the first page, or the chapter load as you said, but the second page, too. And I didn't mention it before, but if from a chapter page you go *back* to the last page of the previous chapter it'll reset the screen, too....

I find that in dimmer light (indoor) the text fuzziness from no resetting isn't too noticeable -- but in brighter light (such as outdoors) I have to force reset every page by double tapping the 'n;n button or it's too fuzzy.
Finally have my new nook in hand so I don't have to work from memory and conjecture... yes I see that same flash behavior also. I was just suggesting one possible reason. It does seem related to presence of images on a given page rather than chapter boundaries. Probably some anti-ghosting tactic.

And I'm happy to discover that 'intermittent' flashing does not bother me.

Last edited by tomsem; 06-18-2011 at 01:34 PM.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:38 PM   #14
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The Kobo touch just came out with a firmware update that allows you to specify the number of pages before a refresh, so I would imagine the Nook developers would include that in their next update.
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Old 06-18-2011, 05:42 PM   #15
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The Kobo touch just came out with a firmware update that allows you to specify the number of pages before a refresh, so I would imagine the Nook developers would include that in their next update.
Wow, they responded very fast. We can't even get a public acknowledgment of the ghosting issue or the sync issue. Here I was turning my nose up at them for not allowing you to change margins or line spacing.
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