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Old 06-02-2011, 04:45 PM   #16
DiapDealer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellmark
See, thats the thing, I don't think that eInk will go anywhere, but rather be improved to the point that it gets used in more mainstream devices.
That's the way I see it too. I just don't see it happening anytime soon. Because it just won't replace LCD in mainstream devices until they can get video quality refresh rates... and get them dirt-cheap.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:06 PM   #17
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Actually, a lot of people have traded their huge flatscreens for Netflix on netbooks and ultralights, just as they chose eInk over luxurious physical libraries.

Just for fun, I'll be really dogmatic:

New tech has traditionally been introduced in pure distillations, like potent single-malt scotch. Then corners are cut on materials and design shortcuts are implemented. Then the purity of the concept is diluted over time as the initial interest dies down and its functions are incorporated into other devices.

No more beach reading for you! There will be nothing but Coors Light and blinding iPads from now on!

Thus spake the Unlaundered Curve Nazi.

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Old 06-02-2011, 05:22 PM   #18
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But I can still purchase potent single-malt if I'm willing to dig deep enough in my wallet.

So if you tell me dedicated ereaders will be expensive and rare in several years... I'll believe you. But I refuse to believe they'll become extinct. And since I paid $359 for my ereader almost 2.5 years ago, "cheap" isn't one of my personal requirements.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:50 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze View Post
Actually, a lot of people have traded their huge flatscreens for Netflix on netbooks and ultralights, just as they chose eInk over luxurious physical libraries.
LOL, so I've heard, but you'll pry our big screen from my husband's cold dead hands, hence the smily.

Plus, that and we use our big TV for gaming, too, and you really want a big screen for split-screen games.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:46 PM   #20
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lol, saying ereaders are a fad is like saying reading is a fad. Reading might be a fad but it would be an extraordinarily long lived one 5K+ years.

I'll take a multipurpose high refresh color eink in the meantime.
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:10 PM   #21
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...if you look at things in the long run, that is always how it is. Who uses a calculator anymore?
LOL! I use my calculator almost every day, usually to balance my checkbook.

Are you sure I'm in the minority?
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:18 PM   #22
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Actually reading and calculation have a common history if you think about it. The first writing on clay tablets was probably done for accounting so that ancient UR knew how much grain each of its citizens contributed towards the common good. And some calculation was needed to find the boarders of each person's land after the annual flood of the Nile valley and I'm sure they marked down some figures on papyrus when working out taxes for the people even back then as well. There have always been ways of working out numbers just as there have been those to write them down. In fact the word 'computer' was first used to describe someone who worked out figures for accounting. They would compute the figures. It was only later that the term came to be associated with the modern machines that we alternately praise and curse at. lol.
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Old 06-03-2011, 05:43 AM   #23
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I tried reading on LCD's only for 3 months. Then I pulled out my e-ink reader again --- suddenly my eyes feel a lot less tired. So I must agree that color display technology must make a great leap forward to really replace b/w e-ink for reading novels. But why shouldn't a single purpose reader at $50 still have a market?

Last edited by HansTWN; 06-03-2011 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 06:58 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GA Russell View Post
LOL! I use my calculator almost every day, usually to balance my checkbook.

Are you sure I'm in the minority?
Working at a credit union I can tell you that anyone that balances their checkbook is definitely in the minority!
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Old 06-03-2011, 07:39 AM   #25
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If they take away my eink, I'll make one out of spit and sawdust.
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Old 06-03-2011, 08:42 AM   #26
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To be honest, I think it depends on the devices in question. I generally prefer dedicated devices to multi-purpose devices mainly because of the loss of functionality in multi-purpose devices. That's the main reason why I still refuse to get a smart phone; the only thing I use my phone for is to call and text. I prefer cameras to take pictures, laptops or tablet pcs to surf the Internet... Stuff like that.

At the same time though, there are some devices that are just that good at multi-purpose devices. Like my iPad for example; I can use it as an e-reader (hate the glare, but I have no choice seeing that it's the only reader I actually can use), to surf the Internet, play games (the games are generally cheaper too). I've even taken to storing my music collection there too, because it's easier to sync that manually transfer files like my MP3 player.

But it still sucks as an e-reader though, which is why I doubt dedicated readers are going to out of fashion.
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:19 AM   #27
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I think there will be a point where most ereaders are part of a tablet or laptap type of device. However, I don't see it happening until screen technology advances to a point where a device can have traditional HD screen and a e-ink like screen function.

However, I think that as the prices of multi-function tablets go down, e-readers will also go down preserving a big enough following to be popular among avid readers.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:24 PM   #28
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That's only true if they possess the same qualities, by and large, as the specialist devices.
This. A tablet is not an e-ink reader+color and video. Not until some serious leaps in tech.

Meanwhile e-ink reader sales soar, while non-iPad tablet sales have mostly fallen flat. Where is the tablet revolution? It isn't happening. At least not yet. Things may change, but thus far the iPad phenomenon is an iPad phenomenon, and portable entertainment otherwise is migrating to cell phones.
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:12 PM   #29
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Very interesting thread and some great discussion here.

New around these parts but am an active member at a similar enthusiast forum for mp3 alternatives to the Apple monster - it is quite interesting to read threads like this, discussing convergence devices with the focus here of course on ereaders.

I too have always been a huge proponent of single specialized tools/gear/software versus Swiss Army type stuff. Every day I carry a cell phone, a Blackberry, one of several mp3 players and now, my new Kindle3. A bit of a hassle? Sure. But one I am personally willing to put up with for a variety of reasons, similar to what people have listed already. But even I must admit: the concept of convergence is compelling, even to me.

Still, I do consider myself an enthusiast in certain areas, which is only one reason I continue to carry multiple devices around. Another is this: no one in my personal circle of close friends has a music collection as perfectly tagged with cover art as I do. Yes, this takes me some time initially, but most importantly, it is time I feel is well spent, especially considering the results I achieve.

Like dedicated mp3 players/PMPs, I do feel [hope!] that dedicated ebook readers will be around for a good long time to come - tablets don't quite cut it for me either, though there is no denying their sex appeal. And I also am quite confident that there will always be a very dedicated group of enthusiasts that will continue to purchase and support [creating demand] stuff like Kindles, Sony readers, Nooks, etc...

But that's just me

Last edited by lestatar; 06-03-2011 at 03:14 PM.
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:13 PM   #30
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A tablet is not an e-ink reader+color and video. Not until some serious leaps in tech.
I agree with your idea, O Pagéd and Semi-Aquatic Mammal, but not the classification. The difference between e-ink and LCD matters to us on the basis of our personal taste. It doesn't matter in terms of function. You can complain about LCD glare all you like, but you can still read on both devices.

So far, a tablet isn't an optimum reader. Nor, for that matter, is an iPad's internal amp and DAC as world-class as Ray Samuels' SR-71A and the Cipher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo. But in the widest common markets, when has quality of user experience trumped versatility in any sense? If you doubt it, ask Sony about their aborted Qualia line.

Quote:
Where is the tablet revolution? . . . Things may change, but thus far the iPad phenomenon is an iPad phenomenon, and portable entertainment otherwise is migrating to cell phones.
I would argue that portable gaming and music are migrating to cell phones for the casual user, but that portable film is stalling at devices with slightly larger screens. The initial interest in playing movies on PSPs and, later, iPhones was in the ability to actually do such a thing at all. People have dreamed of visual phones and wristwatch cinema since Fritz Lang's Metropolis.

Portable gaming for the non-casual is an exception (so far) because serious gamers are consumers in massive numbers. In fact, I'd draw a parallel between serious gamers and serious readers and ask the question: Are there really enough people who care about sun glare and reading-specific ergonomics to justify major companies' long-term investment in e-ink. And even if so, are they likely to see it that way?

However, I wouldn't take non-iPad failure as anything but consumer distrust. Many of the same factors that made the Kindle popular come into play with the iPad: A proven and reliable market interface, immediate access to responsive (in Apple's case, physically present) customer service, sufficient ubiquity for there to be endless third-party solutions for most needs, etc., etc.

Other companies have failed to create a popular Android tablet so far, but Android is still young and Android tablets are newly born. When even major companies like Sony commit to using Android, the money and sales involved suggest to me that Google has to get it right in the next few years. But that doesn't mean I'll be buying an Android tablet next week.

Tablet companies can create superb hardware now, but it's roughly as expensive as the iPad's and you can expect there to be maddening jerks and force-quits until there aren't.

I suspect people are tired of paying to beta-test software and integration that might prove short-lived, and know that a depressingly ubiquitous company that specializes in hardware/software integration will get the UI right with their particular model because it's their only particular model. Hardware bugs, like the iPhone 4's antenna, and restrictive markets seem not to be as important as UI seamlessness. Think of all the iPhone users in New York and San Francisco in 2008, all the people who owned and apparently loved using them despite the total unreliability of AT&T phone service in those areas -- the UI, design and ergonomics were more important to them than the device's primary function!

BTW:

Since it's my duty to help people to disagree with me, here's an argument for you to use:

One huge exception to your so-called Unlaundered Curve, Presti (you eunuch), is the goddamned household appliance. Even though the most popular appliances do more than less popular kinds, every dishwasher still washes dishes. Boo-yah &tc.

(Of course, the toaster has been replaced by a mini-oven.)

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 06-03-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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