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Old 04-20-2011, 08:51 PM   #121
JSWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
Given that bookmarks and annotations will migrate to a purchased copy of the same ebook, the lending library version must be identical to the Kindle store version (i.e. AZW or TOPAZ, not ePub). So my guess is that OverDrive will give you a ticket that the Kindle Store redeems. That is already the way that Adobe DRM redemption works after all.
Where did it say that if you borrowed a library eBook that the annotations would carry over to a purchased copy?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:03 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
Where did it say that if you borrowed a library eBook that the annotations would carry over to a purchased copy?
From the Amazon Media Room Press Release:

"We're doing a little something extra here," Marine continued. "Normally, making margin notes in library books is a big no-no. But we're extending our Whispersync technology so that you can highlight and add margin notes to Kindle books you check out from your local library. Your notes will not show up when the next patron checks out the book. But if you check out the book again, or subsequently buy it, your notes will be there just as you left them, perfectly Whispersynced."


JS Wolf, now that it's been stated that libraries will not have to purchase additional ebook licenses, is your only negative that the addition of Kindle users to the pool of library users will increase wait times?
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:31 PM   #123
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From the Amazon Media Room Press Release:

"We're doing a little something extra here," Marine continued. "Normally, making margin notes in library books is a big no-no. But we're extending our Whispersync technology so that you can highlight and add margin notes to Kindle books you check out from your local library. Your notes will not show up when the next patron checks out the book. But if you check out the book again, or subsequently buy it, your notes will be there just as you left them, perfectly Whispersynced."


JSWolf, now that it's been stated that libraries will not have to purchase additional ebook licenses, is your only negative that the addition of Kindle users to the pool of library users will increase wait times?
Thanks for that. I missed it the first read.

All I can say is we'll have to jut wait and see what happens. I am curious what the publishers will say about this. The one thing I am hoping for is that the libraries increase the amount of eBooks one can reserve at a given time.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:36 PM   #124
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Good news, If my Kobo busts I might change to Amazon.
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Old 04-20-2011, 09:55 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wallcraft View Post
Given that bookmarks and annotations will migrate to a purchased copy of the same ebook, the lending library version must be identical to the Kindle store version (i.e. AZW or TOPAZ, not ePub). So my guess is that OverDrive will give you a ticket that the Kindle Store redeems. That is already the way that Adobe DRM redemption works after all.
Yes, that's my guess as well. Since libraries already have an established relationship with OverDrive, it seems like the "simplest" chain of events would be:

Library patron sets up OverDrive account and selects "Kindle" as their preferred format--> Patron checks out ebook --> Library requests ebook from OverDrive --> OverDrive passes the request on to Amazon, where the ebook file is stored --> Amazon (or perhaps OverDrive) slaps a "self destruct" on the ebook --> ebook appears on the library patron's Kindle account over on Amazon and is synced to their device the next time they turn on the wifi.

In this set up, OverDrive's main job is to keep track of what ebooks the libraries have licenses for and to pass along requests to Amazon.

I'm curious to see if it'll be possible to check out books directly from the Kindle. Maybe instead of setting up an OverDrive account, Kindle users will go to their "Manage My Kindle" page and enter their library card information? My library's webpage is a hot mess, so it would be nice to just pop onto Amazon and be given the option to "Read Sample", "Buy Now" or when available "Borrow from the Library".
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:10 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The technologically more advanced high definition DVD format won.

ePub is the technologically advanced format. You do the math.
First off there are a whole lot of videophiles that will completely disagree with your statement.
Secondly epub is not more technically advanced. It is just open. Both are just simple to manipulate code.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:25 PM   #127
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Actually, there are some minor and very technical differences between ePub and MOBI that make ePub slightly better. But on pure text books or books with simple layouts, those differences are not noticed by the regular and common user.

The interesting point here is that Amazon has the biggest ebook market in USA and probably in the world. People can say that ePub is the de-facto standard, etc, but what really makes a format standard or, in other words, what keeps a digital format alive is the market and the people using it. If MOBI or AZW usage goes up because Amazon (or other ebook stores that keep selling MOBI in order to please Amazon's users) ePub will be dead in a couple of years.

Business and technology is about money, market and demand, not how good a solution really is. If something sells good or is popular, then is a good thing in terms of business, regardless of how crappy the internal implementation can be . Most of the time both are true (something sells good and is the result of a nice technical development) but the final decision are based on sales and what the users finally buy.
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Old 04-20-2011, 11:51 PM   #128
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Someone else may have already made these points but:
  • libraries won't have to choose sides in the format war. they license titles, and Overdrive will supply either ePub or Kindle format (virtually all of the ePub titles libraries currently purchase are also in Kindle format). There might be a few cases where there isn't format overlap but obviously all parties will work to close that gap.
  • obviously the already-skyrocketing demand for ebooks will spike when Kindle format becomes available. Hopefully some of this will be mitigated by people who already own both Kindle and an ePub reading device like myself and who will simply have a choice of formats where before there was none. But Amazon or not, we were already well on the way to long wait lists.
  • I am very curious how it will work technically. The Amazon announcement says there will be synching support. That implies a checked-out book can be read on any device linked to your Amazon account. At what point do you have to supply your Amazon credentials, and to whose server? When do you identify the device you'll be reading on? Whose server actually fulfills the download? Presumably you have to somehow link your library and Amazon accounts somehow or this won't work. They must have worked out a way of (hopefully securely) sharing these credentials. Finally is it gonna be whispernet? or will you need to tether to a computer?
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:24 AM   #129
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Wow, I am on the fence with this one. I have a kindle 3 and use it extensively. I also borrow books from my 3 local libraries, and well lets just say I make them work on the kindle. I abide by the rules of the library as much as I can, by only keeping them for the alotted time and then deleting them off my kindle and computer when done. It would be cool to not go this route and have library books work natively on my kindle, but then again I also worry about the budgets that the libraries have to work with, plus limited copies and then increase in wait times for popular titles. There was one bestseller book that I put a hold on and was 43 of 43 on the waitlist. Luckily I found the same title at the other library that I go to and I was 2 of 2 lol. I just dread the increase in wait times that this could cause. Most of what I get at the library are the books I am unwilling to purchase because of their crazy pricing aka James Patterson and others on the best seller lists.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:05 AM   #130
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I find that the further I go on, the more I'm enjoying my Kindle. Looking forward to an international roll-out of this if all goes well.

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Old 04-21-2011, 08:27 AM   #131
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I also worry about the budgets that the libraries have to work with, plus limited copies and then increase in wait times for popular titles.
From everything that's been posted it doesn't appear that libraries will have to purchase additional Kindle ebooks for this to work. So there won't be any financial hit there.

Whether it will increase the wait time for popular books is still up in the air and will depend on how the change is implemented. Right now ebooks in different formats are treated like different physical copies. You can check out the .mobi or .pdf version of an ebook and the .ePub will still be available. In the best case the Kindle compatible .azw format will just appear in the library's catalog as a additional option and nothing else will change.
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:41 AM   #132
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I really hope that this gets extended to the rest of the world soon. And it would be nice if Amazon supplied Kindle to the francophone world too. Although English is my main language, I like reading in French too. I had to buy my K3 in the UK, where I have an Amazon account. I also have one in France.

I have to say that I think it's ridiculous to blame Amazon for what they haven't done at particular times or in particular places. Amazon may be big, but it doesn't dominate the world. It is a successful business and as such they concentrate on what makes commercial sense at a particular time and place. Obviously, they have an interest in keeping most customers happy and growing the business. They grew quite successfully without facilitating library lending. Now they apparently see a new business opportunity in moving into this area.

People who bought a different ereader because they wanted library access have presumably enjoyed that product and its capabilities. But we live in a world of rapidly changing technologies. My first PC was an IBM in about 1980. Since then I have had a large number of different ones of differing capabilities. It's often a nuisance to do the transfer or to find a long-forgotten floppy disc storing something I wanted to keep. I once had a wonderful collection of vinyl LPs. Now most of my music is in MP3 format. So what?

If you don't want to be affected by technological change, it's probably best to stick to DT format for a lot longer.
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Old 04-21-2011, 10:05 AM   #133
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The technologically more advanced high definition DVD format won.

ePub is the technologically advanced format. You do the math.
BluRay won because it had the best marketing, was used by a popular mass market piece of electronics (PS3), and had the weight of a single large company behind it, while the HD-DVD coalition was fragmented and no single company could put the same level of muscle behind the format.
How familiar does that sound on an eBook level?
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:28 AM   #134
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BluRay won because it had the best marketing, was used by a popular mass market piece of electronics (PS3), and had the weight of a single large company behind it, while the HD-DVD coalition was fragmented and no single company could put the same level of muscle behind the format.
How familiar does that sound on an eBook level?
The format wars for the DVD market also had the weight of a movie studio (Disney) that highly influenced what won. The DVD format war and its winner didn't really have anything to do with what format was best. The same happened back in the old VHS vs. Beta days.

For people to complain because they bought EPub readers that may no longer be the only game in town for borrowing from the library is a bit silly. Anytime you buy anything, especially in the electronic world, your product is going to be superceded, and it will have its competition. It's a gamble you take, and no company truly puts the customers first.
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:42 AM   #135
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As far as libraries and budgets go. I can't see how new formats has to cost libraries or anyone for that matter more.

As consumers, we have to pay for our books at prices on the range of $2 to $10 or even more per book, even in ebooks. However, we have to realize that unlike DTBs, our books don't really have a manufacturing cost (i.e. the actual commodity portions, not publishing, authors, etc). I have no problem with the consumer market, but the reality is that if Overdrive or anyone wanted to make books available in a Mobi format, it doesn't have to cost anything to make all those epub books available in mobi. It doesn't mean it won't cost, but it really can be just as simple as converting a file from Epub to Mobi... i.e. disk space.

That being said, I realize that the cost to libraries seems to be more related to each time a book is borrowed or some type of model like that, but I can't say whether that is good or bad without knowing how libraries operate with regards to DTBs.

Given that Libraries in general tend to be financially strapped in our current economy, and I can't help but feel that there will be some benefits to Ebooks in the library.

1) It will make libraries accessible to many working people who are restricted due to lost library hours
2) It may make more libraries accessible to people. I've seen that in California, I can take advantage of the LA or SF public libraries that are normally out of my reach.
3) It may make people more interested in supporting their public libraries.
4) It may save money for libraries who can shift their policies to work with the ebook system and not against it.

It could also cause more harm than good, but we won't really know until it happens. The conservatism in this world with regards to digital formats in the consumer industry seems to hurt most when the business models would rather stick with the status quo (Music, Books, Etc). We must face it, Digital formats are here and we should learn to incorporate them in all aspects of business be it libraries or the publishers.

---Sorry if I digressed too much.
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