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Old 03-29-2011, 07:30 PM   #1
BKh
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"Footnote" location

Dear Friends,

I am converting the following book into an epub/mobi book:
http://digital.library.upenn.edu/wom...lms/psalms.htm

The footnotes are currently located throughout the book, much like real footnotes would be. I'm wondering if I would be committing a big faux pas by leaving them that way in the e-book. Mostly I'm just being lazy. They are hyperlinked properly.

How would you feel about a book where you had to scroll through a page of notes every so often?

Thanks.
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Old 03-30-2011, 12:10 AM   #2
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By 'hyper-linked properly' I do hope you mean out and back, as it seems most readers don't have a 'back' button (mine doesn't, anyway).

I don't mind footnotes gathered at the end of each chapter. If I didn't link immediately, at least the subject matter is still fairly fresh in my memory. Having groups of footnotes stashed randomly... yeah, that's too lazy.
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Old 03-30-2011, 01:14 AM   #3
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Endnotes work best in an ebook. Why should the user have to scroll to find the note? If it's hyperlinked, the link should take you directly to that note.
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Old 03-31-2011, 02:12 PM   #4
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@pholy

Oy! I had no idea the back button was not standard. No, they are not back linked. I think I may be able to add that in with a search and replace. Thanks for telling me about that.

The format now is

Verse
Explanation
Footnotes
Verse
Explanation
Footnotes
etc.

So I guess I will move them all to the end. Thanks for the feedback.
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:26 PM   #5
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Actually I have read documents that had the footnote in a paragraph just after its reference. This actually was pretty easy to read I felt but is not standard as compared to a paper book. The current format seems ok to me but if you want to make it like a paper book then that's a different matter.

There is currently no defined standard for eBooks. Note that the way epub is headed is to place the footnote inside a title line that is placed in the enclosing tag as an attribute. In html today you can hover over a piece of text and the footnote would appear. At some point a similar idea would be you could click the footnote reference and a block would open up over the top of the page with the footnote data. Today no eBook reader supports this that I know of.
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Old 04-01-2011, 10:32 AM   #6
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Actually I have read documents that had the footnote in a paragraph just after its reference. This actually was pretty easy to read I felt but is not standard as compared to a paper book.
That's the way that PG do it. I prefer personally to make them all endnotes, because that way the note doesn't interrupt the flow of the text, which it can do it there are a lot of notes - and some books have a LOT of notes.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:28 PM   #7
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Well, I managed to add in backwards links from the footnotes to the text using regular expressions. Nifty. Thanks for the warning to include those.

But now I have a new question. There are links in the text simply to other places in the text that are not footnotes. For example, "See the poem by so and so." I can't possibly have backlinks from those. How does a reading device that does not have a back button deal with that?

Honestly, I couldn't have imagined the navigation on the Kindle being any more difficult than it is. But not having a Back button. That just doesn't make sense.

@HaryT What is PG, if you don't mind?

Thanks for all the help.
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:47 AM   #8
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The Kindle does have a back button. Amazon have cunningly hidden it by putting the word "Back" on it. Most reading devices do have a "Back" facility; I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over supporting those few broken devices that lack such a facility, personally.

PG is Project Gutenberg.

Last edited by HarryT; 04-02-2011 at 11:50 AM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
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The Kindle does have a back button. Amazon have cunningly hidden it by putting the word "Back" on it. Most reading devices do have a "Back" facility; I certainly wouldn't lose any sleep over supporting those few broken devices that lack such a facility, personally.

PG is Project Gutenberg.
When you say "most" have a back facility, what do you mean? If my most sold then yes, the Amazon Kindles have a back button. If you mean the most models then I would disagree. Where does your data come from?

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Old 04-04-2011, 11:28 AM   #10
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When you say "most" have a back facility, what do you mean? If my most sold then yes, the Amazon Kindles have a back button. If you mean the most models then I would disagree. Where does your data come from?

Dale
Of the reading devices that I've owned, the only one that lacks a "Back" function has, I think, been the PocketBook 360, and that was apparently a firmware bug. Every other (various Kindles, various different Sony devices, various CyBook devices) has had it, either as a button or via a menu.

EDIT: Just remembered that my BeBook Neo also has a "Back" button.

What devices lack such a capability?

Last edited by HarryT; 04-04-2011 at 11:36 AM.
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Old 04-04-2011, 11:53 AM   #11
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Of the reading devices that I've owned, the only one that lacks a "Back" function has, I think, been the PocketBook 360, and that was apparently a firmware bug. Every other (various Kindles, various different Sony devices, various CyBook devices) has had it, either as a button or via a menu.

EDIT: Just remembered that my BeBook Neo also has a "Back" button.

What devices lack such a capability?
All of the Jinke devices lack this. The BenQ and its ilks lack this. I suspect if we did a survey we would find a lot of devices. I am not sure about Kobo. I don't think any of the Jetbooks have this. Some devices won't follow links at all so they don't need one I guess
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:47 PM   #12
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The Kobo can't follow hyperlinks at all, as I understand it, hence falls into the "doesn't need it" category.

I still maintain, I'm afraid, that this is a shortcoming in the reading device, and that it's not necessary for the creator of a book to provide 2-way links. Of course, it's nice if they do so, but it's certainly not (IMHO) mandatory.
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Old 04-04-2011, 12:55 PM   #13
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I always put "go-back" links in my books, even if my reader doesn't need them.

If I intend to upload the book to the MR library, then two way links are a must.
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Old 04-04-2011, 04:07 PM   #14
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The Kobo can't follow hyperlinks at all, as I understand it, hence falls into the "doesn't need it" category.

I still maintain, I'm afraid, that this is a shortcoming in the reading device, and that it's not necessary for the creator of a book to provide 2-way links. Of course, it's nice if they do so, but it's certainly not (IMHO) mandatory.
I was thinking that might be the case. That is a good reason to place footnotes in the following paragraph and reduce the font size for the paragraph so people who don't want to read them can easily recognize and skip over them. It all depends on the target audience. ADE on a pc doesn't have a back button that I can find.

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Old 06-16-2011, 12:45 PM   #15
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footnotes

@Bkh
'So I guess I will move them all to the end.'

With short footnotes the hover effect of a link could be an alternative too.
Example: <a href="endnotes.html#123" title="This is exactly the text as in the foot-/endnote.">
When moving with the mouse on the link the text of 'title' is shown like a tooltip.
I have checked it with the Calibre viewer and it works fine in epub.
I've also made a conversion html --> prc with Mobipocket Creator.
The text of 'title' wasn't shown by the Mobipocket emulator but it was shown correctly on the
Calibre viewer again.
Otherwise: When I used Calibre for the conversion prc --> mobi or the original html --> mobi,
the text wasn't shown. So how is it with kindle?
I don't know if it is worth the work only for epub, but the reader hasn't to jump forth and back for endnotes.
And additional all endnotes are compiled in the file 'endnotes.html'.

George
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