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Old 04-01-2011, 04:43 PM   #16
jgaiser
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I seriously doubt that I'm the only one who feels this way or would be the only one to act this way if forced to by all this foolishness. Let's not kid ourselves, this is about greed, not about protecting authors.
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:47 PM   #17
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I'm OK with such services (that allow offline usage) IF they don't replace purchasing options AND they make it clear that you're just 'renting'.

I subscribe to Rhapsody. I pay $15 per month for unlimited listening from their catalog & offline usage on three portable devices. This makes sense because, especially with my children, musical tastes change. I like a lot of different styles of music and can listen to anything that I want, on a whim, at work, and they can listen to the latest computer aided, marketing driven, talentless pop star of the week, without buying CDs every few weeks! Over the last 7 or so years I've probably spent more on music than I would have otherwise, I feel good that I'm not pirating the music, and everybody wins.

I'd gladly pay $15 per month to Amazon to be allowed unlimited online reading of any books in their kindle store & unlimited reading on 3 ebook readers, knowing full well that I don't own the books and they're gone when I stop paying. My daughter reads a book every day or two... at $10 per I'm usually begging her to instead use the library or trade with friends! Yeah, there are some books that she'd still want to buy (Like the HP series), but we'd buy paper copies of those books. It better reflects the reality of ebooks which aren't physical objects and are often read and forgotten.

Last edited by twowheels; 04-01-2011 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:58 PM   #18
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Well, now you're just flat wrong. There have been plenty of cloud-based subscription models that have gone out of business, servers shut down, etc. No one swooped in to magically take over their business, and many people were out of content they'd legally purchased.
I'd appreciate you citing some examples. In a cloud based, subscription service model, of course, you don't purchase individual books,merely the right to read say x number of books per month.
Its not really that different , come to think of it, from what you do when you "buy" an ebook- there you buy a right to read the ebook for an unlimited time.
If Amazon went out of business tomorrow , you would be in the same position anyway.
Again, if people don't like the model, then it won't work. These days, however, people stream music without buying it, without feeling that they are morons who don't know what's good for them. Guess its easy to look down your long nose at those "soiled masses" who prefer a different model to those in the know.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:04 PM   #19
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They have 3 choices, do the cloud but severely drop the price of ebooks
Well, my model was a version of one-with a subscription model, instead of selling individual books.They think your third choice threatens their livelihood. AGAIN, I understand that everyone here disagrees, but that's how they think.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:20 PM   #20
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How does this "CLOUD" work if I cannot get on the internet? Yes, there are still places, thankfully, that are remote or wilderness, where I want my book or my next book. If there's not internet service, does that mean NO BOOK(s)?

This might be similar to the gps apps that need access to the "cloud" but fail to work while driving in the mountains or some other hinterlands. I like my maps local, on the unit. I don't care if my maps are somewhat out-of-date.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:28 PM   #21
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This already exists... it's called Google eBooks.



http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/overview.html

BOb
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:35 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by twowheels View Post
I'm OK with such services (that allow offline usage) IF they don't replace purchasing options AND they make it clear that you're just 'renting'.

I subscribe to Rhapsody. I pay $15 per month for unlimited listening from their catalog & offline usage on three portable devices. This makes sense because, especially with my children, musical tastes change. I like a lot of different styles of music and can listen to anything that I want, on a whim, at work, and they can listen to the latest computer aided, marketing driven, talentless pop star of the week, without buying CDs every few weeks! Over the last 7 or so years I've probably spent more on music than I would have otherwise, I feel good that I'm not pirating the music, and everybody wins.

I'd gladly pay $15 per month to Amazon to be allowed unlimited online reading of any books in their kindle store & unlimited reading on 3 ebook readers, knowing full well that I don't own the books and they're gone when I stop paying. My daughter reads a book every day or two... at $10 per I'm usually begging her to instead use the library or trade with friends! Yeah, there are some books that she'd still want to buy (Like the HP series), but we'd buy paper copies of those books. It better reflects the reality of ebooks which aren't physical objects and are often read and forgotten.
THIS!

Hey everyone else is doing it. I understand that most people would rather attack "greedy", "idiot" publishers, beat their chest and threaten that they would jump to the nearest piracy site if the publishers don't do as they say, etc, but the plain fact is that the publishers are businessmen who WILL NOT adopt a model that they think threaten their livilihoods, just because some folks on MR think they should.
I think that the publishers and booksellers will most likely offer a cloud subscription model, alongside the present model and I think it might even become the dominant model. People will continue to "purchase" downloadable copies, of course, but only for special books that they want to reread. These may or may not be DRMED, but they will be a small minority of the ebooks read.
I predict that Google or Amazon will do it first, but Apple might surprise everyone.

Last edited by stonetools; 04-01-2011 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:37 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by FF2 View Post
How does this "CLOUD" work if I cannot get on the internet? Yes, there are still places, thankfully, that are remote or wilderness, where I want my book or my next book. If there's not internet service, does that mean NO BOOK(s)?

This might be similar to the gps apps that need access to the "cloud" but fail to work while driving in the mountains or some other hinterlands. I like my maps local, on the unit. I don't care if my maps are somewhat out-of-date.
PLease read the OP, all the way to the end. tia
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:58 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by stonetools View Post
[B]Cloud ebook access presumes downloading and caching in the browser to cover
the times when you're not connected. HTML5 apparently has the capability to
do that in such a way that the data is sprinkled all over the browser in
pieces that are very hard to reassemble into a coherent digital file for
passing along. So it works as DRM.

You're quite right that the cloud for ebook wouldn't work if you had to have
persistent connectivity to read a book.
Will I be able to read my ebooks on my Sony, my iTouch, and any other device I buy in future, until the day I die?

Will I be able to load and listen to my music/audiobooks on my Clip+, my iTouch, my car stereo, and any other devices I buy in future, until the day I die?

If the answer is "no" to any of the above, why would I have any interest in "the cloud"?
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:23 PM   #25
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Maybe publishers are starting to realise that, after all, DRM doesn't work, so they come up with even crazier ideas, like this cloud thing.
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Old 04-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #26
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Nope. If my choices are a.) read it on "the cloud" garbage and b.) pay a premium for DRMed garbage I'll take choice c.) spend 30 seconds finding and downloaded a pirated copy that I can keep forever without restrictions.
Because you don't like the options you were given to obtain a book, you'll steal it instead? What's with that?

FYI, no one is under any obligation to sell anything to you under terms you dictate. If you don't like the terms, do without. It's not your property.

Last edited by tubemonkey; 04-01-2011 at 07:27 PM. Reason: two words missing - "the options"
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Old 04-01-2011, 07:06 PM   #27
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This already exists... it's called Google eBooks.



http://books.google.com/help/ebooks/overview.html

BOb
I'm not interested in Googles ebooks either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stonetools View Post
THIS!

Hey everyone else is doing it. I understand that most people would rather attack "greedy", "idiot" publishers, beat their chest and threaten that they would jump to the nearest piracy site if the publishers don't do as they say, etc, but the plain fact is that the publishers are businessmen who WILL NOT adopt a model that they think threaten their livilihoods, just because some folks on MR think they should.
I think that the publishers and booksellers will most likely offer a cloud subscription model, alongside the present model and I think it might even become the dominant model. People will continue to "purchase" downloadable copies, of course, but only for special books that they want to reread. These may or may not be DRMED, but they will be a small minority of the ebooks read.
I predict that Google or Amazon will do it first, but Apple might surprise everyone.
The publishers can say & do whatever they like, and I will do whatever I need to, to continue reading the books that I want to read one way or another.

The music industry said the same damn thing & we see where that got them. If the publishers need to learn the same stupid lesson the hard way as well, we will be more than happy to oblige them.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:07 PM   #28
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Because you don't like the options you were given to obtain a book, you'll steal it instead? What's with that?

FYI, no one is under any obligation to sell anything to you under terms you dictate. If you don't like the terms, do without. It's not your property.
I'll go beyond that-- if publishers go towards the model the OP mentioned I will actively proselytize people to pirate books. I would want to destroy the evil utterly, and send the publishers out of business. Forget "civil disobedience", I'd want open warfare.
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Old 04-01-2011, 08:16 PM   #29
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I'll go beyond that-- if publishers go towards the model the OP mentioned I will actively proselytize people to pirate books. I would want to destroy the evil utterly, and send the publishers out of business. Forget "civil disobedience", I'd want open warfare.
But it's not your property. It's theirs.

Don't you believe in property rights?
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Old 04-01-2011, 09:00 PM   #30
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But it's not your property. It's theirs.

Don't you believe in property rights?
I believe in property rights-- to a point. But there is a point beyond which the peasants need to uprise and introduce the aristocrats to Madame Guillotine. I have no interest in eating cake.
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