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Old 03-31-2011, 03:57 PM   #1
Fi3ryPh03n1x
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Lightbulb Idea for Consideration in Future Builds of Calibre



I'm here because I have a single eBook that the author has made a part of multiple series. So, I want my eBook to be assigned to multiple series and sort by series within all of them without having to duplicate the book for each. I've done some researching here and elsewhere for ideas on how to 'work around' this issue with custom series fields, etc. None of the solutions work for me, though, so I came up with an idea that I'd like to propose.

For my example below, I'll use one of my eBooks that fits this need: The Reversal, By Michael Connelly. It is part of both the Mickey Haller series and the Harry Bosch series and needs to be assigned accordingly. To accomplish this, it seems to me that it wouldn't be too difficult to allow multiple entries for the series column. It could be in a large box format... something like this:

`________________________________________________
|..Series.................................................. .|..Index..|
`------------------------------------------------------
|..Harry Bosch...........................................|...16.....|
|..Mickey Haller..........................................|..3.......|
|..NY Times Best Seller's Top 100 of 2010.....|..58......| (NYT is just an
|................................................. .............|...........| example, not
|................................................. .............|...........| actual data...)
|................................................. .............|...........|
|................................................. .............|...........|
|................................................. .............|...........|
|_______________________________________________|

Having more than one entry for the series would autmoatically 'ghost' the entry into two or more separate line items in the database. Clicking on any item to edit the entry would take the user back to the same entry since all the ghosts refer to the same item. Also, multiple entries for this field would not increase the book count, author count, etc. It would simply create multiple referrers for the same item.

Since I'm not a programmer, I don't really know how hard this would be to accomplish, or if the concept is even compatible with Calibre at all. But I have seen enough comments on the need for this feature to think it worthy of consideration, anyway.

Final output would be something like this. Embedded object wasn't working out, so you'll have to follow the link instead to see it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

All ideas welcome! Particularly interested in comments from programmers who understand the Linux foundation of this software and how my idea would/would not fit into that construct.

FP
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:18 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi3ryPh03n1x View Post


I'm here because I have a single eBook that the author has made a part of multiple series. So, I want my eBook to be assigned to multiple series and sort by series within all of them without having to duplicate the book for each. I've done some researching here and elsewhere for ideas on how to 'work around' this issue with custom series fields, etc. None of the solutions work for me, though, so I came up with an idea that I'd like to propose.

For my example below, I'll use one of my eBooks that fits this need: The Reversal, By Michael Connelly. It is part of both the Mickey Haller series and the Harry Bosch series and needs to be assigned accordingly. To accomplish this, it seems to me that it wouldn't be too difficult to allow multiple entries for the series column. It could be in a large box format... something like this:

`________________________________________________
|..Series.................................................. .|..Index..|
`------------------------------------------------------
|..Harry Bosch...........................................|...16.....|
|..Mickey Haller..........................................|..3.......|
|..NY Times Best Seller's Top 100 of 2010.....|..58......| (NYT is just an
|................................................. .............|...........| example, not
|................................................. .............|...........| actual data...)
|................................................. .............|...........|
|................................................. .............|...........|
|................................................. .............|...........|
|_______________________________________________|

Having more than one entry for the series would autmoatically 'ghost' the entry into two or more separate line items in the database. Clicking on any item to edit the entry would take the user back to the same entry since all the ghosts refer to the same item. Also, multiple entries for this field would not increase the book count, author count, etc. It would simply create multiple referrers for the same item.

Since I'm not a programmer, I don't really know how hard this would be to accomplish, or if the concept is even compatible with Calibre at all. But I have seen enough comments on the need for this feature to think it worthy of consideration, anyway.

Final output would be something like this. Embedded object wasn't working out, so you'll have to follow the link instead to see it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/phot...eat=directlink

All ideas welcome! Particularly interested in comments from programmers who understand the Linux foundation of this software and how my idea would/would not fit into that construct.

FP
Moderator Notice
Please don't Spam the forum with essentially the same idea (Merging from other threadfailed)

Last edited by theducks; 03-31-2011 at 04:24 PM. Reason: merge failed
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:22 PM   #3
Fi3ryPh03n1x
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I posted this idea as a reply in another thread initially, and then decided to try it as a separate thread afterward. Here is a reply from Starson17 with some good questions I received in the other thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Starson17 View Post
Which series entry would you sort on when you sorted by series? Which value would you use for the filename when Save to Disk had series in the template? For readers and programs that use single valued series, which would you put in there? When editing metadata and assigning multiple selected books to a series, what would you do with the multiple listed series? Delete one and keep others? Delete the first only? Delete all? Keep all and add the new one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi3ryPh03n1x View Post
Good questions. Rather than address each question separately, I'll briefly elaborate on my idea and see if it helps address the issues you brought up. The group of series could have an assigned 'Primary' checkbox. You'd simply check the series that trumps the others. The primary entry could be used for Save to Disk, NextInSeries Indexing, etc. Editing multiple books in a series could affect the primary entry. All other entries could be considered the 'shortcut/ghost' entries I am suggesting.
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theducks View Post
Please don't Spam the forum with essentially the same idea Merging
Self-identified error. Planned to remove/close initial reply after new thread opened. Please feel free to close conversation in the first thread and delete this message if you'd like. (I take issue with the credit of being a 'spammer' though, but I'll let it slide... this time! )
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:27 PM   #5
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Mods can split your thread off for you , just ask, even suggest a new title
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Old 03-31-2011, 04:34 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi3ryPh03n1x View Post
The group of series could have an assigned 'Primary' checkbox. You'd simply check the series that trumps the others. The primary entry could be used for Save to Disk, NextInSeries Indexing, etc. Editing multiple books in a series could affect the primary entry. All other entries could be considered the 'shortcut/ghost' entries I am suggesting.
I'm not sure how that differs from what you can do now. You can presently create a custom series-like column for all the other series, and leave the "primary" series in series. What advantage do you get from the changes in code required to implement this that you don't get from existing custom column solutions?
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Old 03-31-2011, 05:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starson17 View Post
I'm not sure how that differs from what you can do now. You can presently create a custom series-like column for all the other series, and leave the "primary" series in series. What advantage do you get from the changes in code required to implement this that you don't get from existing custom column solutions?
Unless I misunderstand how the custom column works, here is the difference I see, (stated in over-simplified terms for clarity). Displaying only author:"Michael Connelly" and clicking the "series" column to sort his entries by series would only show "The Reversal" one time in the Harry Bosch series, and leave a gap in the "Mickey Haller" series. As I see it, there is no way to show that both series are complete without duplicating the eBook or implementing my idea for a ghosted entry so that one eBook shows up for all assigned series.

Incidentally, a side note for this particular author's series for Duck: I am getting my info from the fantastic fiction website. This is where it shows at least two different books as part of multiple series.

So, essentially, the current work around doesn't allow a book to be shown as a part of multiple series that can be sorted within all series in the same column. Within a single search/sort result, the entry can only exist in one location or another as opposed to the eBook filling out all the series simultaneously. The premise of my idea comes back to ghosting the entries for eBooks to be seen in multiple locations, but have all of them refer to one entry.

As for the changes in code, here I plead ignorance. I am not a programmer and have no idea how difficult this would be to implement. But I have to believe it is possible. After all, the software already shows one eBook with multiple formats (EPUB, MOBI, PDF). It would seem that the series field could house multiple entries and display them accordingly as well. Programming gurus -- am I out in left field? How would this not work?
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:26 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi3ryPh03n1x View Post
So, essentially, the current work around doesn't allow a book to be shown as a part of multiple series that can be sorted within all series in the same column. Within a single search/sort result, the entry can only exist in one location or another as opposed to the eBook filling out all the series simultaneously. The premise of my idea comes back to ghosting the entries for eBooks to be seen in multiple locations, but have all of them refer to one entry.
The only current way to do this is to create multiple book entries for the same book with different series identified for each.
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:27 AM   #9
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After many weeks of trying to do what may appear to be simple and arrange my few thousand books in alphabetical order, i soon found out that the metadata that placed your books sometimes first name first or sometimes last name first, together with books with 2 authors names or names with commas and whatever included resulted in a total jumble and a even more complex solution to try and resolve the mess.
I don't need tweaks, right clicks menu's, recalculates,sort methods i just want a simplistic way of reversing first and last names for some entries and then placing a colomn of names in alphabetical order, not from any metadata.
then finally correct the meta data.
thanks
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Old 04-01-2011, 03:44 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by makeitsimple View Post
After many weeks of trying to do what may appear to be simple and arrange my few thousand books in alphabetical order, i soon found out that the metadata that placed your books sometimes first name first or sometimes last name first, together with books with 2 authors names or names with commas and whatever included resulted in a total jumble and a even more complex solution to try and resolve the mess.
I don't need tweaks, right clicks menu's, recalculates,sort methods i just want a simplistic way of reversing first and last names for some entries and then placing a colomn of names in alphabetical order, not from any metadata.
then finally correct the meta data.
thanks
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Old 04-01-2011, 11:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fi3ryPh03n1x View Post
Unless I misunderstand how the custom column works, here is the difference I see, (stated in over-simplified terms for clarity). Displaying only author:"Michael Connelly" and clicking the "series" column to sort his entries by series would only show "The Reversal" one time in the Harry Bosch series, and leave a gap in the "Mickey Haller" series. As I see it, there is no way to show that both series are complete without duplicating the eBook or implementing my idea for a ghosted entry so that one eBook shows up for all assigned series.
It sounds like you want one book entry displayed when you sort by author, but multiple books listed when you sort by series - one for each series that the book is assigned to. I doubt that will happen.

You have the same problem with any multiple field, such as multiple authors, multiple tags, etc. If what you want is done for all those fields, too, what do you display for a table sorted first by author, then by series where the book has four authors and three series? Do you list four authors (three ghost authors) and for each of those four then list three series (two ghost series)? Instead of one book you're now displaying twelve books, eleven of which are ghosts. Extending this to the multiple field of tags and sorting on tags would be a nightmare of ghost entries.

I add a second field for any book that's a member of a second series. If I want to know if a second series is "complete," I sort on that extra field. I just don't see any benefit to lots of ghost entries.
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Old 04-01-2011, 12:24 PM   #12
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It sounds like you want one book entry displayed when you sort by author, but multiple books listed when you sort by series - one for each series that the book is assigned to.
I wouldn't mind if ghost entries were displayed once for every series no matter how they were sorted (title, author, series) but that is just my personal opinion. I keep the series field visible so it would be easy to see why the entry was duplicated.

Quote:
You have the same problem with any multiple field, such as multiple authors, multiple tags, etc. If what you want is done for all those fields, too, what do you display for a table sorted first by author
I've already considered the problems that would surface in this case, too. And you're right. Multiples of multiples could cause problems. Of course displaying tags in this way would just be ridiculous and I don't think anyone would ever want something like that. But I can envision multiple authors managed in the same way as multiple series. If each book had a unique identification number that was displayed next to each ghost entry, or if there were an icon/field that showed how many total ghost entries there are... there could even be a toggle for "ghosting on/off" so that you can see it expanded, or only in it's 'main' location.

Last edited by Fi3ryPh03n1x; 04-01-2011 at 12:28 PM.
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Old 04-01-2011, 04:42 PM   #13
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Idea for consideration in future builds of Calibre ?

Sorry, but i thought that suggesting that having a more simplistic way of sorting entries was in topic.
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:01 PM   #14
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@makeitsimple - not entirely your fault, but if you had read the first post you would have seen that it is actually just a very poorly named thread by the OP. This thread was not an open invitation for feature requests - it is the OP's (second) attempt to discuss their desire to change the way series information is stored/displayed. The thread should really have been called something more specific to that.
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Old 04-02-2011, 04:53 PM   #15
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Thanks for explanation, senior moment for me i thought i was going to be shot at dawn.
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