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Old 01-17-2008, 02:05 PM   #61
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Please don't be impolite; I have checked it out and have told you before that I think it's a very good idea. I do intend to start using it myself once I've completed my current round of book updates. I have fairly long-term plans when it comes to book creation and don't just "drop everything" to incorporate new things, no matter how good they are.
I think what you told me is it's a good idea, and it'll crash the cybook! Then you didn't use it or discuss it further. I'm pretty sure that's how it went. And that was before anyone had downloaded the tester file at all. So clearly, you had not tested it at that time.

It's not "dropping everything" to add items to the guide while you're making a book. It'd be more like: making the book.

Here's the thing Harry: I don't care if you use it or not. It's a good idea, and you claim to want to make better books, so I thought you might be receptive. But I don't really care if you use it or not.

I would like you to stop saying things, that people may believe you know what you're talking about, when it's pretty clear that you don't. Anyone who's looked at the tester file knows it includes a linked list of the books in it. There's no reason to imply I said that should not be included. As long as you say or imply things about my suggestion, which people may believe, that are not true, I'm going to correct you. If that's impolite in your opinion then I'm sorry. I would gain far more respect for you if you checked out the idea and gave it some serious consideration, and stopped making up things to make it look bad.

Just because you don't want to use my suggestion doesn't mean nobody else should. And I want them to know that.

Anyone is welcome to use the suggestion. It's a good idea. There's no reason to have long, clunky, navigation when it's easy to have faster easier navigation. And you are not obligated to make your books Harry's way. Make them the way YOU like them.

If/when I make a multi-book file, I will incorporate the faster navigation.


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The iLiad has a number of fixed navigation icons - table of contents, first page of the book, etc, rather than using a menu. These icons are activated by the standard Guide entries, "TOC", etc. It currently has no provision for displaying additional Guide entries.

Well, if the icons are "activated by the standard guide entries" including toc, then it seems to me that my toc guide entries would show on it. I wish I could get my hands on one to test it, but I can't.

-> Anyone with an Iliad, I would love if you'd download my tester file and test it on your iliad and let me know if the toc items I've added show up for you. Matter of fact, maybe you can download one of my other books and tell me if my link to "eBook Credits" is showing up for you. It'd be much appreciated.
Here is "The Loss of the SS Titanic":
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...346#post138346
This post explains the idea, and a tester file is two posts down:
http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...397#post137397

Even if the guide items don't show on the iliad, in no way does that make my suggestion bad, it just means that those with an iliad won't benefit from it.

In that case, it would definitely create faster and easier navigation to place your toc as the very first or very last item in the book, allowing one click access (a feature already incorporated into my formatted books). The way you are putting your toc third, fourth, fifth in the book, with no guide item, requires a person to go hunting for the darn thing every single time they want to use it. Then, in your multi book files, you're linking to title pages, with each book's toc another several pages in. There is definite room for improvement.

Put your main toc as the very first or very last page of the file, for fast access. In multi-book files, link to the TOC, not the title page. Add a link to the title page to the toc for those who wish to go there.

So there you go, another good suggestion for speeding navigation. To be used alone or in conjunction with my first shared idea. It would be an improvement to nearly every book posted in this forum.

Last edited by cmbs; 01-17-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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Old 01-18-2008, 02:35 AM   #62
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I would like you to stop saying things, that people may believe you know what you're talking about, when it's pretty clear that you don't. Anyone who's looked at the tester file knows it includes a linked list of the books in it. There's no reason to imply I said that should not be included. As long as you say or imply things about my suggestion, which people may believe, that are not true, I'm going to correct you. If that's impolite in your opinion then I'm sorry. I would gain far more respect for you if you checked out the idea and gave it some serious consideration, and stopped making up things to make it look bad.
I really don't know where you get the idea from that I am criticising you in any way whatsoever. You are mistaken in that belief.

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Well, if the icons are "activated by the standard guide entries" including toc, then it seems to me that my toc guide entries would show on it. I wish I could get my hands on one to test it, but I can't.
The only Guide entries that the iLiad uses are TOC and "Start Reading". If these entries are present in the Guide, the corresponding navigation icon is active; it they are not present, the icon is disabled. It's not a menu system, so there's no way for any "extra" entries to show up - they are simply ignored. I only sold my iLiad a few weeks ago, so when I was experimenting with using the Guide I did a lot of testing on it.

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In that case, it would definitely create faster and easier navigation to place your toc as the very first or very last item in the book, allowing one click access (a feature already incorporated into my formatted books). The way you are putting your toc third, fourth, fifth in the book, with no guide item, requires a person to go hunting for the darn thing every single time they want to use it.
I'm afraid I don't follow you.

In my "single" books (eg the Dickens) my Table of Contents navigation entry takes you directly to the TOC. The TOC is not the first item in the book - that is perfectly true - but the TOC navigation entry takes you directly to it. If there is any book in which this does not work correctly, please let me know and I'll put it right.

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Then, in your multi book files, you're linking to title pages, with each book's toc another several pages in.
That's true, because I believe that's what most people would expect that navigation link to do. In a paper "omnibus" edition of a book, the overall book index would take you to the start of the book, not the chapter list for it. The TOC is virtually always on the very next page, so it's only a click away. I suppose it's a question of whether one feels that one click to get to the title page, or one click to get to the chapter list is more appropriate behaviour. My personal view is that the way I do it is preferable. I appreciate that others may feel otherwise. That's fine.

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Put your main toc as the very first or very last page of the file, for fast access.
As long as there's a navigation link which takes you directly to the table of contents, why does it being the very first or very last item in the book make access any faster? I'm afraid I don't quite follow your argument there.
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Old 01-18-2008, 06:03 PM   #63
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Ever since you exclaimed that my navigation idea would crash the cybook, before you even looked at it, and me knowing that it works fine . . . I've had a hard time taking your word for anything. I hope you can understand that.

As far as my ideas, I am finished discussing it with you unless you would want to get serious. By that I mean you are actively trying to make it work and for whatever reason have questions or concerns.

I'm sorry I suggested anything to you. I misjudged you. Sorry. Just don't cut my ideas down anymore and I won't come behind you and refute what you said. OK? Sound like a fair deal?
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Old 01-19-2008, 12:58 AM   #64
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Let's take a breath here for a moment.

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Ever since you exclaimed that my navigation idea would crash the cybook, before you even looked at it, and me knowing that it works fine . . . I've had a hard time taking your word for anything. I hope you can understand that.
Whoa, hang on a moment, cmbs. I think we've got a bit of a mis-communication going on here.


I went back and looked at what HarryT said, and I can't help but wonder if you may have misread it:
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Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I understand exactly what you mean, cbms, and I think it's a good idea. My only concern is that, on the Gen3, what would happen if the navigation menu exceeded the limits of what would fit on the screen? It tends to be a little prone to crashing if you try and do things like that to it!
(emphasis added)

I don't see any claim there that anything will happen. Only an expression of concern that something might happen under certain hypothetical circumstances.

From what I see there, HarryT was simply saying that he had noticed a tendency for the Cybook to crash if the nav menu exceeds certain parameters. He was clearly not talking about your sample specifically, he was sharing a general concern which he has about the approach. I haven't tried your sample out either, I don't have a machine to try it on: I'm accepting your statement that it works. And I don't see anywhere that anyone has disputed that it works, actually.

Perhaps you can see, however, that is possible for a more complex navigation scheme than the one you tested to emerge in some other book and exceed those limits?

Given those concerns, and knowing that HarryT is speaking from lots of book formatting experience, and also knowing how much he cares about getting his uploads "just so," it seems to me that his caution at trying a new approach without thoroughly testing it just isn't all that unreasonable.


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Originally Posted by cmbs View Post
As far as my ideas, I am finished discussing it with you unless you would want to get serious. By that I mean you are actively trying to make it work and for whatever reason have questions or concerns.

I'm sorry I suggested anything to you. I misjudged you. Sorry. Just don't cut my ideas down anymore and I won't come behind you and refute what you said. OK? Sound like a fair deal?

I looked back over the discussion, and other than that single expression of concern, everything HarryT has said about your idea has been pretty supportive.

Just some examples:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
Good ideas. I'll see what I can do!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I understand exactly what you mean, cbms, and I think it's a good idea.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryT View Post
I have checked it out and have told you before that I think it's a very good idea. I do intend to start using it myself once I've completed my current round of book updates.
It seems pretty clear to me that HarryT is not in any way trying to cut your ideas down -- quite the contrary, he's said he intends to start working with them, he just wants to finish the projects he's already got going without introducing new factors. Some folks are just picky that way, they have a right to be if they so choose, and it's not a reflection on anyone or anything else.



I know other on-line forums are very ... contentious. Okay, most other on-line forums are out and out snake-pits, just teaming with nasty tempered folks who are absolutely drooling over any chance to attack anyone they can get in their beady-eyed little sights. Does that about cover it?


I'm extremely happy to say that MobileRead really isn't like that.

I've been around here for ... it'll be two whole years on the 30th. The only reason I stayed around even a two weeks was because I could see pretty quickly that this community is very different. Ideas are shared, discussed and built upon in a remarkably respectful manner. People disagree, quite frequently in fact, but it's always respectful. People around here seem to mostly realize that a person's opinion isn't invalidated because it isn't shared by all, and that we can even learn a lot from people we don't agree with. This is the heart of MobileRead, and it's something we all work pretty hard to preserve, because it wouldn't work if we didn't all make it work.

Sure, people do get a bit excited on occasion, and discussions can get a bit heated, but mostly they calm down pretty quickly. And the occasional trouble-maker that wanders in (we do get them sometimes) usually gets bored and wanders back out on their own in pretty short order: it's just no fun for them.


So, putting on my much-hated (by me, anyway) moderator's had for a moment, let me council a bit of calmness. I really don't see that HarryT was trying to talk you down at all, and I'm sure that it's all just a miscommunication. Please accept it from me that he's really a good guy, and that he's not out to get you or anything. If he comes across a bit stiff, well, chalk it up to his being British, that's what I do.


Okay, I'm now taking the deeply-loathed moderator hat back off and tossing it back into the smelly depths of the upstairs closet where it belongs.
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Old 01-19-2008, 03:21 AM   #65
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I'm not upset. I was shocked by such a bizarre accusation and apparent dismissal coming from someone whom I'd thought might be receptive, and before they'd even checked out the idea, but that's been days past. It's just a side effect of my experience that I have learned in the process.

I don't care if he uses the ideas. I don't care if he uses them at some time in the future. I don't care if he never uses them. I don't care if anyone else uses them. They were suggestions based on something I saw that I thought not only needed improving, but could be rather easily improved. They were shared in case anyone else wants to think about them, test them, use them, improve them. Do that, or not: I don't care.

I don't even care anymore if any of you wants to get on here and post more reasons why they won't work. I don't see the point in defending them anymore. In my opinion, it's your loss.

I don't much want to discuss this anymore.

If you are actively trying to implement the ideas in your book and for whatever reason you need to ask me a question or discuss it, send a pm. Otherwise, I don't wish to discuss it. I've unsubscribed from these threads.

You'll also be glad to know that I don't intend to post any more books here. It's all so extremely unimportant. It's not worth the drama, the accusations, the hurt feelings. I didn't mean to come shake up your little world. I apologize.

Are we all happy now?

Last edited by cmbs; 01-19-2008 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:21 AM   #66
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I don't care if he uses the ideas. I don't care if he uses them at some time in the future. I don't care if he never uses them. I don't care if anyone else uses them. They were suggestions based on something I saw that I thought not only needed improving, but could be rather easily improved. They were shared in case anyone else wants to think about them, test them, use them, improve them. Do that, or not: I don't care.
Hi cmbs. I'm sorry to hear this. Here, we do care, and I think part of the fun of participating in this community is that other people do care what you do or what you think. You are free to disagree, of course, but please let's not stretch personal anger or disagreements into personal attacks.

Quote:
You'll also be glad to know that I don't intend to post any more books here. It's all so extremely unimportant. It's not worth the drama, the accusations, the hurt feelings.
I know there are a lot of people who appreciate your efforts, to whom your book uploads are not unimportant. But I respect your decision. And it's good we agree that all of this is not worth hurting other people's feelings.

Cheers,
Alex
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Old 01-19-2008, 04:24 PM   #67
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Harry- thanks for the tutorial. I've created a program that will handle this automatically using mobigen.exe from mobipocket. The thread for the app is here:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...135#post141135
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Old 01-21-2008, 05:09 AM   #68
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Harry- thanks for the tutorial. I've created a program that will handle this automatically using mobigen.exe from mobipocket. The thread for the app is here:

http://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...135#post141135
Great stuff! Thanks for sharing this.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:51 AM   #69
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Re: Tutorial - How to Create a MobiPocket eBook

great tutorial harry, i am really found so many new things. But i think you also add some things more in MobiPocket eBook.
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Old 02-20-2008, 03:55 PM   #70
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Harry, I found a slight problem with your tutorial. It leaves out line spaces that are supposed to be there in the PRC eBooks.

To fix this...

Code:
Set the search text to: <DIV >&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</DIV>
Set the replacement text to: <BR />
Set “case sensitive” to “off”.

Then do a “Replace All”.
I've added it to my copy of the guide and it does work.
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Old 02-21-2008, 02:24 AM   #71
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The blank lines are missing on the Mobi desktop reader; they show up just fine on all the other versions I have (CyBook, Pocket PC). Looks like a bug in the desktop reader - it's not displaying "<DIV></DIV>" as a blank line, as it should do.

I've made a note of your fix, however.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:31 AM   #72
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The blank lines are missing on the Mobi desktop reader; they show up just fine on all the other versions I have (CyBook, Pocket PC). Looks like a bug in the desktop reader - it's not displaying "<DIV></DIV>" as a blank line, as it should do.

I've made a note of your fix, however.
All I had to go on was the desktop reader for Windows. But the change I have come up with does work with the desktop reader. So if that's implemented, then it's all good even with the bug.
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Old 05-31-2008, 09:33 AM   #73
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problem with images

I have just started building ebooks, both with Book Designer and with Mobypocket Creator.
Great tutorials, thanks.
Anyway I can't solve two problems:
I insert picture, I can see it in BD but when I open the file saved in htm there's no picture. (the picture is in the same folder)
I have noticed that the "Insert picture window" gives some strange name for the picture which is repeated in the html tag.

The other obscure thing is this passage in the tutorial

First, click the “Settings” icon on the top toolbar to display the “Settings” page. If it’s not already checked, click the “Embed JPEG images in eBooks” box. This ensures that we get full-size images in our eBook.

There seems to be no such option in the setting page.
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:13 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by Holden View Post
I have just started building ebooks, both with Book Designer and with Mobypocket Creator.
Great tutorials, thanks.
Anyway I can't solve two problems:
I insert picture, I can see it in BD but when I open the file saved in htm there's no picture. (the picture is in the same folder)
I have noticed that the "Insert picture window" gives some strange name for the picture which is repeated in the html tag.
After you exit BD you'll find the picture files in the "LastFile" folder in the BD installation folder. You need to manually copy these files to wherever you've put the HTML file.

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The other obscure thing is this passage in the tutorial

First, click the “Settings” icon on the top toolbar to display the “Settings” page. If it’s not already checked, click the “Embed JPEG images in eBooks” box. This ensures that we get full-size images in our eBook.

There seems to be no such option in the setting page.
It applied to an earlier version of Mobi Creator; ignore it. It's now set automatically.
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:49 PM   #75
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And once again I have understood everything.
So it's very important to copy the last file folder, otherwise it would be overwritten by the next one.
And now I have a perfect copy of my favourite book. Slaughterhouse 5, translated into Italian.(Don't worry I'm not going to re-distribute it, moreover I have at least bought three different edition on paper.)
Thank again, Harry
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