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Old 12-29-2010, 01:17 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by boswd View Post
you've never seen an iPod out in the wild? Seriously? Just look for the people wearing the infamous white earbuds.
White earbuds are only attached to iPods? Gee, I always thought I had a Sansa Clip attached to mine!
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Old 12-29-2010, 01:29 AM   #47
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[*]heavily advertised on TV in the US[/LIST].
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Originally Posted by boswd View Post
i think the last reason is 99% of the reason they are leading.
are we in the same country watching the same TV? since September I think I have seen 2 adds on television
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:51 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by boswd View Post
Again just because a product is popular doesn't auotmatically make it the best. I can name at least 3 mp3 players that are far and away better than any iPod, but what is by far and away the most popular. I can name at least 4 phones that are better than the iPhone, but again what is more popular.
That's true, but the opposite is also true - just because a product is popular doesn't automatically make it inferior to others, which your posts seem to imply.
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Old 12-29-2010, 02:58 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
I do, I know several people with Kindles (2 just received them for Christmas), but the only owner of a non-Kindle reader that I know is my mother, who inherited my Astak when I got my Kindle a couple of months ago.
Before Christmas, I knew four people (including myself) that own Kindles, and one that owns another brand of e-reader (a Sony). The person that owns the Sony is also the only person I know that owns an iPad. I don't know if anyone I know got an e-reader for Christmas.

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Regarding the inference that all (or at least most) Kindle owners are guilty of "lazy researching and sheep mentality", I'm sure that may be true of some, but contrary to what some people around here seem to believe, I think there are a lot more people out there who do their research and make an educated choice. Every Kindle owner that I know (4 including myself) did. Maybe I hang out with a more intelligent and/or cautious group of people than average (I don't think so, but maybe), but most of the people I know aren't going to drop over $100 on a gadget without doing a little research first to make sure they're getting the one that will work best for them.
That was certainly true of me. I was looking to buy an Android tablet, but after looking around and finding out what I could about the various options, decided that a Kindle was a better choice. I can't justify spending upwards of £100 without at least trying to make sure that I haven't wasted my money.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:09 AM   #50
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Pretty interesting thread you guys got going here. I wasn't going to contribute to this discussion until I read this comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by boswd View Post
defensive? I actually looked at the kindle before the nook. The only one sounding defensive is you .
Which I can understand, an iphone and a kindle? Not extacly setting any trends or thinking to independantly are ya?
That just sounds snarky to me, regardless of the smiley at the end.

Although I do agree with the statement that 'popular' doesn't necessarily mean 'best', I also think the definition of 'best' depends on the person buying. What's best for me isn't necessarily best for someone else. We all have different standards and different needs. And maybe even more important: a different financial situation.

I have an iPhone (which I'm very happy with) and my Kindle will arrive next week. I didn't buy them to be part of the cool and popular group (as the comment above seems to suggest). I bought them because I believe they are the products that suit me best. I don't want to set any trends, because I'm not 12 anymore.

There sure are 'sheep' out there who just buy what is most popular. But the majority of the people actually think before they buy something. Especially when there's an economic crisis going on and the thing they want to buy costs a lot of money.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:34 AM   #51
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Originally Posted by Fbone View Post
Amazon is selling all these Kindles and yet no one I know owns one.
Besides me, I know of two others at work with ereaders. I have a Nook Color and they have Kindles. I've yet to see any Nook in the wild, although I've seen several Kindles.
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Old 12-29-2010, 04:41 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by KarenH View Post
White earbuds are only attached to iPods? Gee, I always thought I had a Sansa Clip attached to mine!
A fellow Clip owner. That deserves a big

BTW, a Clip or a Clip+?
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:33 AM   #53
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Also what I think the bigger question is how much of the total market has ereader grabbed and how much is left as an untapped market?
That is a big unknown at this point, indeed.
What *is* the natural size of the dedicated reader market? Is it just 15 million units a year? Doubtful. 30? 50? Bigger?

We're clearly past the early adopter/enthusiast phase, which not everybody has quite internalized yet.
And the market has shown explosive growth in the last 18 months; we've gone from companies bragging about sales of 25,000 units to companies keeping mum unless they've moved a million. But there is a lot of "noise" product getting attention without generating sales. It makes certain segments and regions appear more significant than they *currently* are.

I suspect there is still significant growth to be had, especially in europe. That whole market can't continue its fragmented Shakespearean "sound-and-fury" state much longer. The rest of the world? Hard to tell. Content availability and culture play a big part into reader sales...

My best guess is that dedicated readers is a naturally smaller market than smartphones or PCs but that there's at least one and maybe two doublings in scale before sales slow down. Should be good for maybe 30 million a year.

When we see 30 million? Haven't the foggiest. Maybe 2015, maybe 2020.
In a way, it really depends on the non-Amazon vendors coming up with truly competitive product.
The more vendors get what the market values, the faster we get there.
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Old 12-29-2010, 07:42 AM   #54
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are we in the same country watching the same TV? since September I think I have seen 2 adds on television
Oddly, the local FOX station seems to run Kindle ads every other night. Most commonly in the syndicated Law and Order: SVU.
Also sighted regularly during HUMAN TARGET.
They must figure caper fans will appreciate KINDLE.
(I'll have to keep an eye out when and if LEVERAGE comes back.)

The thing about national TV ads is that they're expensive.
You need to be a *big* player to start with to go in that direction. Its not economically feasible for even medium players.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:05 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
Oddly, the local FOX station seems to run Kindle ads every other night. Most commonly in the syndicated Law and Order: SVU.
Also sighted regularly during HUMAN TARGET.
They must figure caper fans will appreciate KINDLE.
(I'll have to keep an eye out when and if LEVERAGE comes back.)

The thing about national TV ads is that they're expensive.
You need to be a *big* player to start with to go in that direction. Its not economically feasible for even medium players.
I guess I have to thank my DVR once again. other than the occasional news show I rarely see commercials anymore. the few kindle ones (along with any animal commercials) caught my eye and I will actually slow down for them
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:33 AM   #56
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Oddly, the local FOX station seems to run Kindle ads every other night.
That is odd. I didn't know they had any viewers that could read.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:45 AM   #57
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So, this guy walks into MR and says, "Can you tell me what color the sky is?"

"Blue," says one MRer.

"No," says another. "The Kindle is better!"

"Nu uh," a third says. "The nook is."

"Sony!" Screams a voice from the crowd.

Throwing up his hands, the guy says, "Never mind," and walks out again.
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Old 12-29-2010, 08:56 AM   #58
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Wasn't the previous Kindle the best selling product on Amazon also? I remember being surprised by that, because you would expect them to sell a lot more of a low value item (a book, an mp3 track, a CD) than these.

My suspicion is that this is true in some literal sense, but a bit misleading.

As to the side discussion on the "best" products, often the most popular are simply the best. I often research what to buy using what sells best on Amazon - it's the "wisdom of crowds", I guess (which is quite an interesting book btw). It seems to me that buying something less popular to prove to yourself how independent you are is no better than buying what's popular because it's trendy.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:42 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by fjtorres View Post
That is a big unknown at this point, indeed.
What *is* the natural size of the dedicated reader market? Is it just 15 million units a year? Doubtful. 30? 50? Bigger?
I don't think there is any way to know yet, since there are numerous variables, such as:

- Will the education market prefer a dedicated or multifunction device
- How big does the dedicated market grow, as prices fall
- How long will dedicated devices offer advantages over multifunction

I expect education will be the big wild-card. eInk / epaper devices will offer numerous benefits, notably battery life, cost and focusing on reading.
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Old 12-29-2010, 09:56 AM   #60
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Wasn't the previous Kindle the best selling product on Amazon also? I remember being surprised by that, because you would expect them to sell a lot more of a low value item (a book, an mp3 track, a CD) than these.

My suspicion is that this is true in some literal sense, but a bit misleading.

As to the side discussion on the "best" products, often the most popular are simply the best. I often research what to buy using what sells best on Amazon - it's the "wisdom of crowds", I guess (which is quite an interesting book btw). It seems to me that buying something less popular to prove to yourself how independent you are is no better than buying what's popular because it's trendy.
To your first point, yeah the best selling single item is akin of Studios saying, "It's the #1 rated comedy based out of Chicago aired between 10 and 10:30 in the country" or "the #1 rated Children's movie based on a character from the 60's in the Country"

same here with Amazon, I'm sure it sells way more DVD and Blu ray's but each individual title would count as one product. Same with books, TV etc.
So it's kind of a little hokey.

as to your second point, that is a yes and no. Sure people will buy products just so they don't follow the crowd but in many instances the crowd is being pulled along by the Pied Piper. And yes some products are the most popular because they are the better choice. But both cases are far and few in between.

For example, if someone today wanted to buy a pocket sized hand held camcorder, which brand first comes to mind? The Flip? 9 out of 10 times, yes. What was more than likely the best selling pocket camcorder this Christmas season, the Flip? I'd be shocked if it wasn't. Heavy adverstising creates herd mentality. It creates the "it must be popular so that means it must be the best".

now lets say you did something of at least 30 mins. of research. Then all of a sudden the picture isn't so clear. In fact your opinion would most likely change. All of a sudden the Kodak Zi8 or Kodak Playsport seems like a better option. better rated video quality, shoots up to 1080P and all the way down to WGA for computers, expandable memory (very key) replacable Lithium ion Battery, comes with an HDMI cord included.
All features the Flip doesn't offer. So why on Earth would you buy a Flip camera?

So then why is the Flip the better selling pocket video camera?

See what I mean?
Amazon has a similar strategy, and heavy promotion is at the heart of it.

Last edited by boswd; 12-29-2010 at 10:05 AM.
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