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Old 11-25-2007, 02:09 PM   #16
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I've never seen an MS Reader books with the same problem of small graphics. But I have seen the problem with a Mobipocket file where the graphics are very important to the book. So in effect because f backwards computability, the Mobi format book was a total bit of useless nothing. What Mobipocket needs to do is rewrite the readers for PDAs/cell phones and other smallish screens and make it so the images get reduced in size by the reading software. That way they can support proper sized images for devcices such as the Kindle, gen3, and iLiad. I know you can make your own books using jpeg images and have them be a decent size. But that does not help if you purchase a book what has images and the images are useless.
You say that if you want to buy a lit book and convert it the images will work better on a Sony. So I asked you for an exemple file so I can see that this is really true since you said in another place that all lit files you had looked at had jpg and with the -jpeg flag to mobigen images has a bigger size.

I assume you can buy Sony format books that have not been properly produced also.
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:05 PM   #17
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If you were to return the 505 and go for a Gen3, you might run into some major issues in your reading preferences. Mobipocket being an old format was developed for PDAs. Such that images are small. So small in fact that they won't look good on a Gen3 or iLiad. You read nonfiction and if the images in any of those books are important, your reading experience will be poor. If you keep the 505 and go the MS Reader format to LRF, then you'll find you'll have a better experience given that the images will be larger.
Jon,

I believe that you are being over-pessimistic in generalising that ALL Mobi files have images which are too small.

Take a look at my "Sherlock Holmes Omnibus"; a number of the stories in that contain illustrations. See, for example, "The Dancing Men" or "The Golden Pince-Nex", both in "The Return of Sherlock Holmes". I think that you'll find those illustrations to be a perfectly acceptable size in my Mobi version.
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Old 11-25-2007, 03:30 PM   #18
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I now find myself increasingly converting from other formats to MobiPocket (even when a MobiPocket version is available), and if I had a choice for DRMed books I would buy a LIT version over a MOBI because it is a better format (i.e. a better rendition of the original OEB format).
Wow, this is one of the most damning statements I've yet read. Could you elaborate?
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:05 PM   #19
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I don't see any short term alternative to MOBI, but it isn't a good starting point for format shifting.

MobiPocket HTML is nasty, here is a recent discussion: The Mobipocket format: Starring Leonardo diCaprio and Kate Winslet. LIT HTML is still old-style, but at least it has CSS and if you explode a LIT you get a OEB document directly (e.g. it will have a OPF file for metadata). There are not many tools for OEB files, but oeb2epub converts it to an EPUB.

The issue with images is partly that MOBI is packaged as a palm PRC file, which limits images to 64KB. There was also originally no JPEG support. LIT images are usually JPEG, and there is in any case no limit on image file size for LIT. MobiPocket now allows JPEG, which can be made to fit in 64 KB without shrinking the image, but most MOBI e-books use GIFs and have smaller images than the corresponding LIT. So using ConvertLIT and mobigen.exe to make a MOBI from a LIT often gives you a better MOBI file than the one produced by the publisher.

Some e-books are MOBI only, and it is probably a good thing that most of these are hidden by DRM because MobiPocket has quite a few non-standard extensions to HTML which are likely used liberally in such e-books.

Last edited by wallcraft; 11-25-2007 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:49 PM   #20
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Some e-books are MOBI only, and it is probably a good thing that most of these are hidden by DRM because MobiPocket has quite a few non-standard extensions to HTML which are likely used liberally in such e-books.
Actually almost all eBook formats as non-standard to html constructs since HTML is a scroll based format while eBooks are page based. Standard HTML has no notion of pages, headers, footers, footnotes etc. which are the staples of books. This is why there are explicit eBooks standards being developed and things called XHTML.

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Old 11-25-2007, 05:53 PM   #21
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Thanks wallcraft! This is a very compelling argument against the Mobipocket format.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:56 PM   #22
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I just finished a book that started out as a LIT file & the map in the front was so small it was completely worthless, so I guess sometimes the LIT files have problems too. If all Mobi files are like that I guess it's pretty useless for them to even include images.


Example...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...CrossBones.jpg
Could you post the actual original image? I'd like to see what photoshop can do as far as increasing the size.
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:59 PM   #23
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Could you post the actual original image? I'd like to see what photoshop can do as far as increasing the size.
Here you go. Not sure what you're hoping PS will do, the original image size is the problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/AnemicOak/ix.jpg
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Old 11-25-2007, 05:59 PM   #24
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Jon,

I believe that you are being over-pessimistic in generalising that ALL Mobi files have images which are too small.

Take a look at my "Sherlock Holmes Omnibus"; a number of the stories in that contain illustrations. See, for example, "The Dancing Men" or "The Golden Pince-Nex", both in "The Return of Sherlock Holmes". I think that you'll find those illustrations to be a perfectly acceptable size in my Mobi version.
I'm not talking about books we or someone else generates. I'm talking about books that are purchased with DRM. I'll show you a few images in one of Winston Churchill's first WWII book to show you how bad they really are.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:19 PM   #25
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I live in the US and bought the 505 3 weeks ago. It's an incredible device. Of course the 100 free classics through e-connect was enticing but since then I've noticed several web sites (like Mobileread and Manybooks.net) literally offer thousands of books in the SONY 505 LRF and BBeB format. In fact, every "free" classic book offerred by e-connect is also available at those 2 sites. However, the e-connect bookstore is the only source for new/recent publications. If you can't access the site, you can't buy new, first run books. That would be a major drawback for me. But since I love classic literature and poetry, I still have a source for thousands of texts.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:20 PM   #26
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Here you go. Not sure what you're hoping PS will do, the original image size is the problem.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v609/AnemicOak/ix.jpg
Photoshop cannot do anything to help the small map. But if it was an image from a Mobi format book, it would have been even smaller.

But you are right, LIT is not perfect, but it is better then Mobi as far as the images go.
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Old 11-25-2007, 06:24 PM   #27
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Photoshop cannot do anything to help the small map. But if it was an image from a Mobi format book, it would have been even smaller.

But you are right, LIT is not perfect, but it is better then Mobi as far as the images go.
Oh, I don't doubt you & I have no real complaints with LIT. In this particular case the map was useless is all.
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Old 11-25-2007, 07:20 PM   #28
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Oh, I don't doubt you & I have no real complaints with LIT. In this particular case the map was useless is all.
Yes, I agree. That map is not good. The bit that is supposed to have all the detail is almost useless.
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Old 11-26-2007, 01:47 AM   #29
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"I'm also conscious of the fact that I'm voting with my dollars. This market is young enough (there are so few of us still) that one person's platform choice can help make a difference on the direction the industry takes. On that end, the Cybook seems to have less "baggage" than the Sony. However, I'm not convinced that buying Mobipocket is sending the right message."

That's why I'm only considering the hanlin and cybook (or would consider the iliad but I don't like it very much). I don't want to support a company pushing a one-format-to-one device model. Besides, you know that in the end, a company that does push such a model will burn you. It's happened over and over again.

I also don't want to support a company that shits on / ignores the rest of the world. I'm sick of software that won't display foreign character sets, etc, or does things like when apple bricked the iPhone. I can't be bothered with such hassles.

Remember that mobipocket is what the kindle uses... kindle just changes some encryption code to make it incompatible, but technically speaking it can't be THAT bad, maybe just old books sold in that format were formatted poorly, it can't be that the format is inherently incapable of proper formatting.

Mobipocket might not be perfect technically or otherwise, and I'm weary of it now that amazon bought them and split the DRM model into two formats, but at least on the still-mobipocket side it's still multi-platform. Philosophically what are you buying into when you buy into the mobipocket system, and how might that affect you in the long term?

If someone new comes out with another mobi-like multi-platform DRM system, clients might be added to devices like the hanlin and cybook. Companies peddling things like the kindle and sony 505 have no motivation to permit a client to any competing DRM format, to formats that take away from their own content sales. If anything they'd make a new device that supported the multiformat, but keep their kindle or 505 purchasers locked into the single format... and thus leave you stranded.

You're hoping for adobe DE in your 505? Why would sony follow through with that? Content is a good revenue stream, and the more devices they sell the less likely they will be to give customers an exit strategy. If sales are terrible, then they might consider it to boost sales, but only when they get the message the closed DRM is not OK would they even consider adding DE support. Right now I don't think that "not OK" message is out there.

I'd be quite surprised if Sony added DE support before companies like bookeen/cybook and jinke/hanlin. The later have no proprietary content format to defend, it's only an issue of negotiating with adobe and writing the code. Sony has to wait for sales to slump before they'd consider writing the code. If Sony was willing to offer alternatives, they'd already be offering mobipocket support. They obviously have the resources to write a mobipocket or DE client if they wanted to.

I'm thinking if you're going to make a decision, it will have to come by ordering a hanlin v3 or cybook gen3 immediately though. I can't imagine you having the sony 505 in front of you and not opening it. I'd be impressed if you had that kind of willpower though.
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Old 11-26-2007, 03:07 AM   #30
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Thanks wallcraft! This is a very compelling argument against the Mobipocket format.
The "prophets of doom" among us may like to disparage the Mobi format, but the fact remains that it is pretty much the de facto industry standard, and supported on far more devices than any other format. I would suggest that you download the free Mobi desktop reader from mobipocket.com and take a look at some Mobi books for yourself. I think you'll find that it's not nearly as bad as some people like to make out .

If you want to buy commercial eBooks you'll find far more available in Mobipocket format than any other.
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